The Problem with Over-Optimization in Modern Health

In this episode of the Health Optimization Medicine Podcast, Dr. Scott Sherr, Dr. Jup Kuipers, and Dr. Allen Bookatz explore:

• Why can “healthy” supplements and optimization strategies become harmful when used without proper testing and balance?
• How did modern wellness culture turn health optimization into an overwhelming second job for so many people?
• What role does metabolomics play in identifying functional deficiencies, toxicities, and metabolic bottlenecks before disease develops?
• Why is personalized, data-driven supplementation more effective than chasing generalized protocols from influencers and social media?
• How can optimizing foundational cellular health improve resilience, recovery, sleep, cognition, and long-term health span?

What We Discuss:

00:00 Introduction: Live from Washington D.C.
01:09 The Danger of Too Much B6: An Olympic Case Study
01:51 Fish Oil Toxicity: When Anti-Inflammatory Goes Wrong
06:15 The Biohacking Conference: Are You Testing Your Needs?
08:19 Changing the Perspective: Disease Care vs. Health Optimization
12:39 Morbidity Compression: Aging Slower vs. Suffering Longer
15:28 The 80/20 Rule of Supplementation
18:18 The Car Dashboard Analogy for Your Health
20:38 Beating Wellness Burnout: Trusting the Metabolomic Data

Full Transcript:

[00:00:00] Dr. Scott Sherr: Welcome back to another episode of the Health Optimization Medicine podcast. I'm here joined with Dr. Jup, Dr. Allen. We are happy to be with you live in studio, recording this together in Washington, DC. So today we're gonna talk about something that we see a lot in clinical practice, which is overcompensation, overoptimization without having a foundation.

[00:00:55] Dr. Scott Sherr: And we'll get into that, but I know you guys have a l- some stories to share here [00:01:00] about some of your patients or that you've seen that have maybe gone a little bit further than they realized with some of their supplementation and everything. So Jup, do you wanna get started? More is always better, right?

[00:01:09] Dr. Jup Kuipers: That's how this works. In the Netherlands, we actually have a famous Olympic ice skater who was just pounding vitamin B6 and actually developed critical neuropathy because of it, all under the guise of, "Oh, vitamin B6 is good for performance- Right ... and I need to win the Olympic gold medal," et cetera, et cetera.

[00:01:27] Dr. Jup Kuipers: But too much of something can be just as dangerous as too little of something, and I think that's a very important thing for people to realize, that more isn't always better. It's about having optimal ratios of all these metabolites in your body. I think you have a similar story. Yeah, absolutely. So the first is a client that watches the podcasts, is tries to be engaged with their health.

[00:01:51] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Not our podcast, but others. And saw that fish oil was all the rage, and so of course more is better. And what's [00:02:00] interesting, you go online and you'll find that there are all sorts of different formulations and concentrations and, and nor- a consumer who believes that fish oils are helpful for you might look- Mm-hmm

[00:02:11] Dr. Allen Bookatz: and say, "Oh, look. There's a high potency or a double potency fish oil for omegas. That's gotta be great for my heart." And yes, it's important that our omega-3 index is 8% or higher, but this particular client had been taking double dose, and all of a sudden is telling me that he kept getting sick. He would injure himself.

[00:02:35] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Yeah. He's actually a very avid tennis player. Mm-hmm. He would injure himself, and then he just wouldn't get better. Hmm. So a lot of lingering injuries- Yeah ... that he wasn't having before. And then his wounds, he fell a couple times and his wounds weren't healing. And these two, I will just say if you were to go to your stand- standard primary care doctor, they would say, "Okay, let's check your platelets.

[00:02:56] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Let's check your coagulation factors. Let's check you for anemia." [00:03:00] And all that would actually come back normal. Right. Normal. And I've seen this in the ER many times. Fortunately, he did not see me in the ER. He saw me as a health optimization client. That's right. And so these vague symptoms actually turned up as huge red flags.

[00:03:15] Dr. Allen Bookatz: And rarely do we ask, "Okay, you're taking a fish oil. How much are you taking? What is the, what does the rest of your diet look like?" And as Dr. Gup mentioned, all of this stuff is super important to look at in ratios, and what you'll find we continue to come back to in health optimization is balance.

[00:03:31] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Mm-hmm. Okay? Anyway, so we check his omega-3s and they are off the chart high. His ratio- How, how high? So he had, index was great. It was like nine. But his, uh, omega-3 to 6 ratio was, what was it? It was like six to one. And for those of you that are listening, that, that is a very, very high omega-3 to 6 ratio.

[00:03:52] Dr. Allen Bookatz: The reason this is so important is that, not to go into all of the complex biochemistry, and if you would like to learn it please join our metabolomics [00:04:00] module where we talk about all of this in detail. Yeah. Fatty acids and the importance of how, uh, how our dietary intake of essential fatty acids plays a role in things like membrane fluidity, immune system, hormone signaling, modeling, modeling, signaling, all this stuff.

[00:04:14] Dr. Allen Bookatz: But he had such a high, uh, a high overcorrection of the anti-inflammatory eicosanoids that all of the factors that- Pro-inflammatory ... omega-6 pro-inflammatory, which- Yes ... you know, we talked about inflammation being a problem these days. Turns out inflammation is really important because it triggers your immune system to do something.

[00:04:33] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Right. It triggers us to heal. We need to be able to quell that inflammation, and that's where the omega-3s would come in, but he essentially was bottlenecking his ability to take any dietary intake of omega-6s or a little bit higher up on the chain and create those inflammatory... Anyway, so we got him on a regimen.

[00:04:52] Dr. Allen Bookatz: We started, we, we backed off the omega-3s. We then gave him some omega-6 precursors, which is [00:05:00] DPO, and, uh, within about a month- Evening primrose oil. Yep. Sorry. Evening pri- evening primrose oil. For those that are familiar. There's a, uh- We're not talking about ipogen. Not ipogen. Tro+ Calm. Tro+ Calm. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:05:09] Dr. Allen Bookatz: You use that for other reasons. And within weeks he said, "Wow, I didn't realize I wasn't sleeping well." Yeah. Headaches, brain fog, all sorts of stuff that he wasn't aware that he was symptomatic from- Right ... starting to lift and resolve. And fortunately, we rechecked him. He was still high because he was sne- you know, he thought he was just- I'm gonna back up and take one fish oil, but- Really?

[00:05:30] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Yeah, we had a- Yeah. 'Cause, you know- ... he's so, so programmed in him that these are heart healthy. Yeah. It's so fascinating- Yeah ... that that cognition is still there for him. Mm-hmm. But it's fascinating, right? Yeah. That even if he lands up on a spot where he's damaging his health actively, he still thinks, "But this is good for me," right?

[00:05:45] Dr. Scott Sherr: "This is good for me, so I need to keep taking it." Despite all evidence to the oppo- Mm-hmm ... opposite. Yeah, so those are great stories, guys. Mm. I have one too, and I think it's very related, which is I gave a lecture back in 2019 at a biohacking conference. And I don't think you were there. I don't think you were there.

[00:05:58] Dr. Scott Sherr: No, I don't think so. [00:06:00] No. Wilmer was there, um, one of our other faculty, and Dr. Chad was also speaking. And I gave a lecture, and in my lecture, I asked everybody to raise their hands in the audience. This is a biohacking lecture, mi- mind you, right? How many people here are taking supplements? And everybody in the room obviously raised their hands.

[00:06:15] Dr. Scott Sherr: But then I asked a second question, which was, "How many people have tested what they need- Mm. Mm ... and are taking supplements that are re- required because of their physiology, their own personal physiology?" Mm. Not anybody else's that they heard about on TV or socials or whatever. And about 20% of people raised their hands.

[00:06:33] Dr. Scott Sherr: Mm-hmm. And I think change... things have changed a little bit since then. There are a lot more direct-to-consumer lab companies that are giving people the option. But before we get to really looking at the down and dirty of what we think is most important here, question for you guys is where did we go wrong?

[00:06:48] Dr. Scott Sherr: Like, in the sense that- Mm ... how did like taking charge of your health turn into an overwhelming second job for so many people? Do you get a sense of maybe why that might be the case? Any ideas? I have a couple, but... [00:07:00] A big part of it is obviously social media pressure. Yeah, I think so. Looking at these influencers doing all kinds of health, lifestyle, whatever they're doing.

[00:07:11] Dr. Scott Sherr: Right, right. And then you have your And portraying an image- Photo shopped image ... that this is like the way to live a healthy lifestyle. But probably when the cameras go off- ... it's, it's a lot different. They're having Snickers bars. They're having Snickers bars- ... Monster energy drinks. Yeah. Yeah. And it... Yeah, I don't know.

[00:07:28] Dr. Scott Sherr: Maybe people are bored as well. I think that there's... I think it's good on some level because there's a lot more interest in health. Mm. I mean, especially since the pandemic when people are like, "Holy crap, I need to get my health in order, I'm gonna... because I'm gonna die of this virus," right? So during that time, there's a lot more interest.

[00:07:43] Dr. Scott Sherr: But as a result of that, like as the, as the interest has come on- Yeah ... is just the raising of noise as well. Noise. So it's very difficult to find a signal out of that noise. And I- Well, it, it's a good point you're, you're making here, because I think from the consumer perspective, there's a growing demand for health [00:08:00] optimization.

[00:08:00] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah. And that's why you're seeing such a uptick in these health influencers and people asking for health advice. But what's lacking is the medical authority or the- Right ... the clinical medical practice to provide that health care instead of disease care, actually. Right. In fact, you were talking about it.

[00:08:19] Dr. Scott Sherr: What's out, out there- Yeah ... is the perspective shift. Mm. Right? The perspective shift that it's not just about- treating illness- Yeah ... or finding the root causes of illness. It's like what if we could optimize health instead, right? Mm-hmm. And that's what we do at Health Optimization Medicine and Practice, the nonprofit, is actually change the perspective from disease into health, and we do that using this field called metabolomics.

[00:08:42] Dr. Scott Sherr: And metabolomics is pretty cool, right? Because it's- Very ... the foundation of what we do, but it's the foundation of what your cells are doing- Yes ... any one time, in real time. It's what's your cells are happening now, what just happened. So we can tell how well you're making energy, how well you're detoxifying.

[00:08:57] Dr. Scott Sherr: Do you have your fatty acid levels that are [00:09:00] all kind of crazy? What's your B6 level, for example? Mm. You can look at all these things, and the numbers don't lie. You know, just like the hips don't lie, right guys? So one of, one of the things I, I think was fascinating about the metabolomics when I was first introduced to it, is you really get to understand how we convert food, what we eat- Mm

[00:09:21] Dr. Scott Sherr: into the actual energy that animates life, right? At the level, at the, at the level of the, literally the electrons. When you follow it and you actually understand it, most of us in medical school, just this was a rite of passage to sort of understand this and then get through it, pass it, and then forget it and say, "Okay, we- Yeah

[00:09:41] Dr. Scott Sherr: we, we learned it, we moved on." But there was never anything translatable clinically from it. Mm. You would just see it and, and, and say, "Okay, that's just how things work." And then we made a bunch of assumptions that it always works well, right? It works perfectly. And then all of a sudden we have a disease state, and now we have drugs and [00:10:00] surgeries and interventions that are gonna address that disease state.

[00:10:02] Dr. Scott Sherr: And the last decade... Actually, it's a little bit longer than the last decade. We finally have these really sophisticated advanced diagnostics to look at all the markers, how we break down and strip electrons off of food, or how we break into food and strip electrons, and there's a lot that goes into it.

[00:10:21] Dr. Jup Kuipers: Mm. It's very energetically costly. And the body is so wise that it doesn't... It shifts resources and when there's a bottleneck for something, that gets utilized in a different pathway. And to your point with vitamins, we're not just measuring like a B12 level, which is if you go to your doctor, "We're gonna measure your B12 level," it might be in the thousands.

[00:10:44] Dr. Jup Kuipers: But it doesn't really tell you whether your body's utilizing that B12. Mm-hmm. It's... And I think this is really important. We talk about networks, and we talk about, uh, what the... When we're checking these vitamin levels, we're actually looking at the particular [00:11:00] pathways that we know are dependent on this particular vitamin.

[00:11:03] Dr. Jup Kuipers: So- Functional testing. Functional testing. Yeah. So it doesn't really matter what your absolute value is. We know that if this- Yeah ... particular pathway is dependent on this vitamin or this mineral- And that pathway's not working, then this is where we can individualize someone's supplements- Mm-hmm ... and really tailor what their unique needs are based on, you know, their ancestry, whatever unique dietary preferences they have, and really give them an informed, you know, armed view of how to meet their nutritional needs best.

[00:11:30] Dr. Jup Kuipers: Mm-hmm. Well, and it ties back into a bigger picture, what we're doing here. Because... And that's something very important to understand. That's the metabolism damage pathology cascade. Mm-hmm. So me- metabolism is basically, uh, our ability for our cells to do work, biochemical work, and it has this optimal way of doing things.

[00:11:54] Dr. Jup Kuipers: And for that to maintain itself, it requires enough substrates, cofactors, minerals, vitamins, et [00:12:00] cetera. But inherently, that process is a bit flawed. It produces oxidative damage, et cetera, so you get oxidized DNA and lipids. But we have beautiful repair systems for that. An, an antioxidant system, we clean up misfolded proteins by autophagy.

[00:12:17] Dr. Jup Kuipers: So that, that works quite well. However, as we age or minerals deplete, cofactors deplete, enzymes become less efficient, this rate of damage repair slows down and the damage starts to accumulate. And we can compensate for quite a while, but at some point, tissue starts to break down and you get loss of function.

[00:12:39] Dr. Jup Kuipers: And this is where illness medicine starts up. It's, it's reactive care. It's like going to your car mechanic when you're, have a flat tire or your, or engine starts smoking. But we now have the tools, like a car with a very modern dashboard, to see what's your tire pressure, what's your oil pressure, and that's the [00:13:00] metabolism part I was talking about.

[00:13:01] Dr. Jup Kuipers: And clinical metabolomics is a science we can now use to measure metabolism and provide, as you said, the exact supplements, lifestyle advices, medications if necessary, you need to revert your metabolism back to its optimal reference ranges. And so that does two things, which is important. It optimizes health now, so people feel good now, they're productive, they sleep well, their libido is good, they have mental clarity.

[00:13:31] Dr. Jup Kuipers: And further down the line, because damage doesn't accumulate as fast, you actually age slower, and the onset of chronic disease is delayed. So you gain something which we call morbidity compression. Mm-hmm. So the years spent in good health extend. We extend your health span. Now, it's not a recent study, it's an old study, but every extra year we now gain in providing a longer life for people, six months of those are spent in a diseased state.

[00:13:59] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Right. So we're [00:14:00] very good- Mm-hmm ... at letting people live longer, but it's also, uh, uh, suffering longer. Yeah. And that's, I think, major two things we're- looking for here is optimize health now and prevent disease later, and not to replace illness medicine- Right. It doesn't replace it. We just want to complete medicine- Yeah

[00:14:19] Dr. Allen Bookatz: or healthcare in general. Yeah. It's almost like a parallel path, right? Yeah. Because our system as it's set up now is so disease-focused. Yeah. Right? It's so treat disease, try to treat it early if possible. Mm-hmm. But even the system itself rewards interventions like surgeries and knee replacements, arts.

[00:14:36] Dr. Allen Bookatz: This is where all the money is in medicine, right? Yeah. And it's a big challenge because that's the incentive system. You have preventative care, and it's primary care. It's a very difficult job. You guys know how hard it is, and it's very difficult because you got 15 minutes with your patient, right?

[00:14:50] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Mm-hmm. And if even 15 minutes with your patients, and I know a lot of our colleagues are just tired of the system and eventually looking for something else to help them. And that's how I was to some degree. I [00:15:00] always knew that the system was not for me, but it was always a matter of how I was gonna get- When

[00:15:05] Dr. Allen Bookatz: out of the system, having four kids and doing all the, the domestic things in life. Um, if, and having to pay loans back from medical school in, in Europe, I know. But one, one thing I like to... I talk about with my patients all the time is that if you're taking supplements, number one, the primary thing here, what I say, is that 80% of what you're taking on a regular basis should be based on your lab work.

[00:15:28] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Yes. Based on a foundational approach to what you're looking to do, right? And Jaap was talking about metabolomics. That's what we use. I know that there's a lot of other testing companies out there now that can give you these base lab, these base labs, which is a bit challenging because you get like an AI readout of some of these other companies, and then you have to figure out what to do.

[00:15:48] Dr. Allen Bookatz: There's actually a whole new business that just got, is getting set up now to help you doctors consulting on these labs because you're- Oh, really? Yeah. That's it, because there's all these companies that are direct-to-consumer labs. Oh, yeah. And you never talk to a doctor. Yeah, yeah. You just get an AI readout and then [00:16:00] on your way, right?

[00:16:01] Dr. Allen Bookatz: I think what's misguided about a lot of these panels that aren't based on what we're talking about is they're still looking for disease. Yeah. They're still looking for maybe early onsets of disease. But what we're really do, doing differently, even with metabolomics, is that, okay, let's focus on how do we keep the system healthy, right?

[00:16:14] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Yeah. Because in medical school, we didn't learn any of these things. And we just learned- Mm-hmm ... what you do when the wheels start falling off and the tire, whatever. Yeah. Then you're, like, hoping to find things early, but not necessarily- Yeah ... trying to reverse them, right? And so the idea with using metabolomic testing and focusing on that perspective shift is that we are actually focusing on cultivating health in people, no matter where they are on the spectrum.

[00:16:36] Dr. Allen Bookatz: That's what I always tell them, because I have some patients that have cancer. I have some patients that are elite athletes. It doesn't matter, and that's what's nice about this. It's not mutually exclusive to anybody, and it's not mutually exclusive to going to your primary care doctor- Oh, yeah ... and getting diabetic care if you need it.

[00:16:47] Dr. Allen Bookatz: But hopefully, when you optimize cellular physiology, you need less diabetic care. Mm-hmm. And that's what we see in clinical practice. And so for me- 80% of what you take on a regular basis should be based on metabolomic testing. [00:17:00] And that's what I do. I don't know what you guys think. True. Same. Absolutely.

[00:17:02] Dr. Jup Kuipers: It's, uh, even more im- important now, 'cause there is a big focus on performance enhancing. And a big distinction we have to make is that health is not the same as fitness. As Ted always says- Yeah. Mm-hmm ... he says, "You can be fit to run a marathon, but not healthy. And you can be healthy, but not fit to run a marathon."

[00:17:20] Dr. Jup Kuipers: And I like your story about your patient. But- ... a lot of people now are into peptides and- Mm-hmm ... doing all these things to enhance performance. Mm-hmm. But if you don't have a base of health, it's just too much stress on your body to recover from. It's like having a very shitty tuned car and- ... like putting the ga- pedal to the metal.

[00:17:39] Dr. Jup Kuipers: It just makes your engine degrade faster. Mm-hmm. So, you first need to tune that engine, meaning optimize your health and giving all the right supplementations and correcting all these deficiencies and solid toxicities. Mm-hmm. And then you can overclock the system possibly with things like peptides or other high performance [00:18:00] exercise things.

[00:18:00] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah. I just love your car dashboard analogy. I know. Cars do work very well. It's, it's so applicable. Any of us that have had any type of vehicle, we al- most of us, at least in the US, we have to drive places. We don't have great public transport. So to... I remember my first car was this, actually it was a Honda Element.

[00:18:18] Dr. Scott Sherr: All right? And I loved that car. I was made fun of- ... just to death, 'cause it's such a funny box-looking car. And I remember, I was young, didn't think much about, oh, whatever, the engine. What lights turned on, but told me I need to go somewhere, but yeah, you're looking it up. Yeah, the goofy box-looking car. I can't picture it.

[00:18:39] Dr. Scott Sherr: Um, yes. It was great. You could fit a lot of stuff in there. Uh, the engine light would come on and I wouldn't think anything of it. I would just turn the car on. It turned on, and went, and it would just go. And I remember I was driving from Sacramento to, to the Southern California, and I was in the middle of nowhere, and the engine light had been on for, I don't know, six months, a year, and I didn't think anything of it because the car kept turning on.

[00:18:59] Dr. Scott Sherr: And [00:19:00] then all of a sudden I heard this zoop, right? And then the car wouldn't go above 30 miles an hour, and I was in the middle of nowhere. And I'm like, "Oh, okay. I see why that engine light was there. It probably would've given me a warning, or it was giving me a warning. I should've done something about it."

[00:19:16] Dr. Scott Sherr: And to your point, yeah, the body, we have these warning lights. Mm-hmm. We're just not looking for them, and we're not testing for them. And this is what's really magical about metabolomics, health optimization, is that when we have a framework that we can look at the body and look at someone's lifestyle and say, "Well, your...

[00:19:35] Dr. Scott Sherr: You staying up late and eating... Going to bed on a full stomach," right? That was something I would do as a kid, and because it just felt good to go to bed on a full stomach. And maybe our listeners, maybe you're not, maybe you're all perfectly healthy and your last bite is three hours before bed. But that was not me, right?

[00:19:53] Dr. Scott Sherr: And that was not my family. It was like, "Oh, let's have some milk and cookies before bed," and that would, that was how you went to bed. [00:20:00] That, your, that story, that, that history is not gonna be uncovered- Mm ... if you went to your primary care doctor. Mm. Right? That type of information's gonna be uncovered if you see your friendly neighborhood health optimizing doctor, because that's the stuff we care about, and that would serve as a warning light, and we would wanna counsel and help intervene on that.

[00:20:21] Dr. Scott Sherr: Mm. So. Yeah. I, I have one more question for you guys before we wrap up. I think this is an important one, which is, and for someone who's burned out on wellness culture- Mm ... there's so much going on, so many things to take, how do we talk to them about getting a metabolomics panel without feeling like it's just one more thing they have to do?

[00:20:38] Dr. Jup Kuipers: Right. What would you say to that? Well, I would say I will do everything for you. So I'll look at it for you, so you don't have to. And we just provide the personalized, tailor-made protocol, and you go, "List, take this," and you don't have to think about it. I love that. Yeah. I, I love that, too. I have, I have clients that are physicians that were very skeptical, and I have clients that [00:21:00] are non-physicians but are just very dedicated and active, and they wanna be healthy.

[00:21:04] Dr. Allen Bookatz: But they do not wanna understand the science behind it, and they just implicitly trust. And so the way we can, just as we tailor our nutrient and supplement regimen to our clients- Mm ... we also tailor how we inform them about their health. Some just wanna know what to take- Yeah ... and they implicitly trust.

[00:21:22] Dr. Allen Bookatz: And if they believe in you, they believe in the model that you're using, and they have to have some framework. It, that's really what it comes down to, is trust. That's great. Our clients and those out there, we don't know who to trust because, to your point, social media is, many of the health influencers out there are getting free products from these c- from- Mm

[00:21:43] Dr. Allen Bookatz: these companies. And so- Mm-hmm ... sure, they may have an effect, but there's a heavy conflict of interest there, and you don't really know whether they're truly taking it or they took it for a couple of days and felt okay- Right, right ... and had a couple of videos out. Made a good deal with the supplement manufacturer, yeah.

[00:21:57] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So, and there's financial, there's also- Mm ... you know, there's [00:22:00] financial kickbacks for them. So that's the one thing I will say in, at least in medicine, is that we're a bit more honest about the conflicts of interest and disclosures up front. In med school they've taken out pharm- pharmaceutical lunches, which- Right

[00:22:13] Dr. Allen Bookatz: that, that went away by the time, at least I was in training, which is- The good old days ... unfortunate. Yeah, everyone was like- Yeah. Me too ... steak dinners at one point at the nieces. Yeah, going on vacations with- Jeez ... yeah, those things ... full vacations. So that doesn't exist anymore. And I think we, that's something that maybe as we move into standardizing this new frontier that, that we're really pioneering, that's something that I would put out there, that we need to hold ourselves to that type of standard- Mm.

[00:22:36] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah ... right, in this industry. I love it. Yeah, so I, what I would just add to that, I think for both you guys, I love your answers, is that if you're taking a metabolomics test, it's replacing the noise, right? Finally, you'll have- Yeah ... a signal- Mm-hmm ... that you can have a base on. And you can check it every six months or a year.

[00:22:54] Dr. Scott Sherr: These metabolites don't, they don't change super fast, and so it does take some time, but it gives you [00:23:00] a base, and that's what all of us need, is not just chasing things all the time, chasing the new supplement, chasing the new influencer, chasing the new influencer protocol. The influencer's never seen a, a patient before in his life and has no idea what it is actually to- Yeah

[00:23:12] Dr. Scott Sherr: treat people and all the variation that goes along with that. Yeah. And so from my perspective, we're subtracting actually- Mm ... by giving somebody metabolomic testing because then they know exactly what they need right now. I love that 'cause- So- This is very recognized before myself as well. Yeah. You always want the best supplement protocol, and I need this and this and this.

[00:23:35] Dr. Jup Kuipers: But finally looking at your results and saying, "Oh, I don't actually need this," it's quite a relief- It is ... that you can actually subtract some pills out of your protocol. Yeah. And, um, it, it takes a while to get out of the more is better - Yeah ... mindset. But I know if you work with a client, and after a year their whole metabolome is optimized, a lot of the supplements you use to [00:24:00] correct these deficiencies, you just take them out.

[00:24:02] Dr. Jup Kuipers: Yeah, and then you're gonna feel like your health is so much better. Yeah. And it might be rear... Dr. Sherr always says it might be a rear view mirror effect, which is- Yeah ... "Well, I didn't get as sick as much this year. I don't get as tired throughout the day." Yeah. "Um, I'm sleeping better. Like, my, some of my medical problems aren't as difficult to manage anymore," right?

[00:24:16] Dr. Allen Bookatz: And so I think in the end what we care about is getting you a base, having a base for patients. And what I do for people like you and these guys- ... is we, I give them 20% of their supplements to play with. Talk to me about what you wanna try, and we can talk about it, but make sure they're really good quality.

[00:24:31] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Mm-hmm. That's a major issue in the supplement industry. The supplement industry doesn't have to... It's not regulated, it's just, it's self-regulated, so keep aware of that. Well, that's on us as health optimization medicine docs with the patients- Yeah ... right? That we research the brands we- Yes, we have to be very careful

[00:24:44] Dr. Scott Sherr: advise our patients to, to buy. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's also a very... What I heard, hear from clients is, "I don't know what to buy, so outsourcing that to you is very nice. I just- Mm-hmm ... order what you tell me to order- Right. Yeah, yeah ... and trust that it's a good product." [00:25:00] Yeah. Well, guys, this has been great. It's nice to be with these two live in, in DC.

[00:25:05] Dr. Scott Sherr: Thanks so much for listening to another episode of the Health Optimization Medicine podcast. If you liked this episode, don't forget to like and subscribe below so you never miss one. Share with your friends and family, and we'll see you all next time.

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