In this episode of the Smarter Not Harder Podcast, Boomer Anderson, Dr. Theodore Achacoso, Dr. Scott Sherr, Jodi Duval, and Dr. Jup Kuipers give one-cent solutions to life’s $64,000 questions that include:

• What is “orthometria” and how can it impact your relationship with wearable health tech?
• How should you interpret wearable data: trends vs. absolute values?
• What are the top wearable devices for optimizing sleep, recovery, and performance?
• How can wearables improve women’s health and hormone tracking?
  

What We Discuss:

00:00 How Wearables Help You Reconnect With Your Body
01:17 Welcome to the Smarter Not Harder Podcast
02:42 What Exactly Counts as a “Wearable”? 
03:42 From Hospital Tech to Personal Biofeedback Devices
08:08 The Quantified Self Movement and Early Biohacking
14:36 How the HOMeHOPe Faculty Uses Wearables Daily
17:43 The Three Types of Clients and How They Track Health
24:28 Turning Wearable Data Into Real Health Improvements
24:50 Client Stories: Successes and Surprises with Wearables
25:55 Why Data Awareness Matters More Than Numbers
26:29 Using Wearables as Mirrors, Not Masters
27:55 The Hidden Benefits — and Pitfalls — of Health Tracking
36:44 How Wearables Are Transforming Women’s Health
37:59 Final Takeaways on Wearables and Balanced Tracking

Full Transcript:

[00:00:00] Dr. Ted: It, it, 

[00:00:00] Dr. Ted: it's like this, right? Um, how do you feel? Oh, let me check my order ring. 

[00:00:07] Boomer Anderson: Look, you guys are all laughing and I'm like, shit, I was that person six years ago. 

[00:00:12] Dr. Scott Sherr: It's not uncommon, especially for guys to have like a disconnect between all of that, right? We're just kind of in general, stereotypically oblivious.

[00:00:20] Dr. Scott Sherr: So, 

[00:00:21] Boomer Anderson: and I, I like Y's point here that like there's a lot of people that spend a lot of time numbing themselves because they have to do all kinds of things for their professional careers. And, um, you know, what he's doing with his clients is introducing wearables as a way to kind of re-familiarize with like, here's how my body works, here's how it feels, et cetera.

[00:00:42] Boomer Anderson: And then the thing about wearables is it's in a language that somebody can relate to, uh, because these guys oftentimes like. Numbers, data 

[00:00:50] Dr. Scott Sherr: and information. Yes. Yeah. Yes. The scoring system competition really big. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:00:54] Jup Kuipers: What I've been experimenting with with the client is that I have access to his data, and so I check it for him periodically, and if I see like his HRVs going down, I ping him from, Hey, hey man, what's up?

[00:01:17] Jup Kuipers: Thank you. Welcome 

[00:01:20] Jodi Duval: back to the Smarter Not Harder podcast. You are home to 1 cent solutions to $64,000 questions, and we are here to answer the big question of the day. Our wearables telling us what we need them to tell us. Well, telling us what we need them to tell us. So we are here to talk about, do we wear wearables?

[00:01:43] Jodi Duval: Why are we wear wearables? Are they telling us exactly what we need to know on a daily basis? Or do we ignore them and just listen to ourselves and you know, what are they telling us? If we are all here wearing something at the moment, what are they telling us this week about our bodies and. What we use and how we, how we actually decipher that information.

[00:02:02] Jodi Duval: So who wants to go first today? 

[00:02:04] Dr. Ted: Well, we have to have the gadget, guy Boomer here go first. Yes. Our, 

[00:02:09] Jodi Duval: yes, Mr. Wearable himself. 

[00:02:10] Boomer Anderson: I'm here, the ceo. Why? Why do I have to go first? I was kind of jotting down all these things that I would consider wearables, but because you always go laugh 

[00:02:18] Dr. Ted: on me now. See that?

[00:02:19] Dr. Ted: That's how much, that's how much wearables he has tried that. He's like, okay, I use this, this, this, this. That sucks. Does my mattress? It's okay. Count as a wear wearable is probably what was asking. I'm 

[00:02:30] Boomer Anderson: going to count and count the mattress as a wearable. Yes. Um, and maybe, perhaps, do you need a minute? Do we Uh, we can, yes.

[00:02:37] Boomer Anderson: Uh, I would actually like to bump this one up and help, uh, because in true Dr. Ted fashion, I think we need a definition of wearables here. Yeah, good idea. Um, so what's your definition of wearables? And then we can proceed from there. Does that sound like a, a good. Course of action. 

[00:02:53] Dr. Ted: Yeah. And the, the definitely thing is you've given a lecture in this, so you know what the definition of wearable is.

[00:02:59] Dr. Ted: I, [00:03:00] 

[00:03:00] Boomer Anderson: okay. You're punting it back to me today. It seems to be that special, uh, special pen and case I look, I just view a wearable as anything that gives you information on a day-to-day basis. Uh, usually. Ad hoc that I, ideally you're wearing it, but sometimes you're sleeping on it. Um, you might just put your finger in it like a pulse oximeter.

[00:03:23] Boomer Anderson: But, um, those types of things can provide information in between your labs and allow you to, uh, dive a little bit deeper on yourself. But, uh, if you guys wanna expand on my definition, uh, happy to, 

[00:03:37] Dr. Ted: go ahead. Well, historically, um. The development of wearables is, uh, uh, reflects a shift right from a centralized form of information and data collection from hospital or clinic setting, and moving it on to something that the individual himself can, um, uh, use at home.

[00:03:55] Dr. Ted: Right before there were wearables, there were, you know, uh, home machines and home gadgets. You could have a home, EEG, and, you know, uh. And then that actually then, uh, moved into some things that you could monitor, uh, in the body itself. Uh, you know, um, I was, I'm old enough to be in the era to know what, you know, you could have actually for cardiac patients or, um, uh, those high risk, you know, there were many years ago, you know, there were, uh, life vests that you could wear and they could monitor your, yes, I told people that your respiratory rate and so on and so forth.

[00:04:31] Dr. Ted: I remember those one. Yeah, those are considered as wearables before, but now, uh, technologies actually allowed us to put this in individuals and, and, and this is a era of personalized data, right? So your data is actually, um, uh, uh. Tailored, uh, is actually captured from you so that the, uh, interventions can be, uh, suited to you.

[00:04:56] Dr. Ted: Right? However, this is also a battle of who owns the data. Before it, uh, it was a hospital or the clinic that owned the data. Now it's actually from whom you buy the wearables from, right? Uh, so, so that's the, um, uh, movement of, uh. Of, uh, wearables, it would have to come right from, uh, from that direction, from centralization to decentralization.

[00:05:21] Dr. Ted: And one of the important things in wearables is that you actually have access, right? And you have, um, the capacity to take a look at the interpretation of your own data. Now, much of the interpretation of the data is actually dependent on algorithm of the company, uh, selling it. So, uh, and, and the, uh, degree of sensitivity, uh, has actually increased, right?

[00:05:46] Dr. Ted: But tho a lot of those are actually computed. Right. Uh, there was a time when, uh, Google had the Calico project, you know, a few years ago where it was a, a contact lens, right, where you could put, and it could [00:06:00] monitor your electrolytes and your glucose. Uh, I don't know where that went, right? Uh, I dunno where that went, but, uh, this has been, uh, superseded by rings, you know, um.

[00:06:10] Dr. Ted: And, and, uh, or, or wristbands, et cetera. But the thing when you take a look at wearables is that they actually have an algorithm for the data that is being collected, right? So the, for me, the best way that you can trust this is if you look at trends, right? You don't look at absolute values, but actually trends in your sleep, trends in your.

[00:06:35] Dr. Ted: Uh, you know, uh, sleep, uh, in your sleep cycles and so on and so forth. Those are useful. The trends are, but, uh, I, I, to this day actually, absolute values aren't. Right. For example, if you have, uh. Continuous glucose monitor. Well then yes. Right. Um, a couple decades ago, the technology wasn't there yet, but I actually explored using, um, infrared to actually shine light on your finger and determine your blood glucose level.

[00:07:05] Dr. Ted: Right. Uh, the time we didn't have the sensors yet, uh, uh, to, to actually do that accurately. And now we do. Uh, and now we do that, but still the most accurate way is to do, uh, little puncture and actually monitor your, your blood. So, uh, I just wanna, um, uh, make it clear to the listeners here that, you know, this was a natural evolution that had to come and what you have to pay attention to when you are actually considering a wearable.

[00:07:36] Dr. Ted: I think 

[00:07:36] Boomer Anderson: that's. A, a great kind of background and framework by which, uh, people can look at wearables and where they're placed, uh, within their health journey, right? The fact that, as Dr. Ted said it's directional rather than point in time, is certainly helpful. And I, I, I think it's a very good topic for us to talk about here because the, the popularity of these has actually exploded.

[00:08:01] Boomer Anderson: While Ted was talking, I was looking at. In 2007. So the quantified self, which predated biohacking, um, it kind of gained a little bit of popularity through Kevin Kelly and Gary Wolf, who were co-editors of Wired Magazine, and these used to be. A group of pretty, um, d iy imp It is sort of a DIY it is a DIY community still.

[00:08:27] Boomer Anderson: Yeah. Um, but initially it was, uh, you know, Tim Ferriss and a few other people getting together in these meetups, and you would, they had a format for it. You'd give seven minute presentation on the experiments you're doing to improve yourself. And a lot of it involved the idea of measuring oneself, and this was before Aura rings, whoops, whatever existed.

[00:08:50] Boomer Anderson: Uh, so you would end up in these very large spreadsheets of people that would track everything they did throughout the day or be [00:09:00] optimizing for one particular event. I'll give you an example, and this was a great one because I presented at the Quantified Self. Conference or symposium, I think it was the symposium in Amsterdam, probably in 2017.

[00:09:16] Boomer Anderson: And see, I told you, he knows, he knew the definition of a wear. So 27, uh, in 2017. And I just needed to get warmed up. I wasn't, I wasn't quite as prepped for this as I. Uh, initially thought, but, uh, in 2017 and this person, uh, so the main stage was these seven minute experiments and or seven minute presentations about experiments, and this woman went and gave a presentation about, uh, 50 different psychedelic trip experiences that she's had over the past.

[00:09:47] Boomer Anderson: I think it was the time span was very short. Actually, uh, and so, uh, and she would just track, okay, this was, uh, my mood going into it. This was my mood during it, and this was my mood going out. You can actually infer from that the value of set and setting right? And you can passport that type of knowledge into also health domains.

[00:10:09] Boomer Anderson: So, uh, when I got into this space, the objective was, um, sleep less, work, more look good naked, right? And, uh, you can. And then you didn't really have anything other than what was the, uh, I think it was the bed. It, or there's like a sleepio thing that you used to tie around your head. And I remember my ex-girlfriend thinking that I looked like a monster wearing it.

[00:10:33] Boomer Anderson: But, uh, it was supposed to help you with your sleep, but you can just start putting things into spreadsheet. That was, um. I had this many cups of coffee in a day, and as a result, I slept like shit. Or back then, the quick association that I could make was, this is how many alcoholic beverages I had. This is how I feel the next day.

[00:10:52] Boomer Anderson: Um. Or types of alcohol, et cetera. And those allowed you to do different behavior modifications. Uh, it's evolved and now it's no longer spreadsheets. It's gone from spreadsheets to rings. I don't know if any of you had the first generation ordering, but I certainly did. I did. I took up half of my finger.

[00:11:15] Boomer Anderson: Uh, but it was a lovely thing and it was actually great. Uh. Great talking piece. 'cause anytime you'd walk around, it'd be a great thing for people to just say, what the hell is that? Right? Um, now it looks like any normal ring and the devices have. Change from ring to wrist to mattress to, uh, we talked about pulse oximeters already, but also things like, uh, heart toilet, mouth, devices, toilet.

[00:11:45] Boomer Anderson: There, there are toilets, right? Mm-hmm. And so there's a Japanese company called Besu, who actually, 

[00:11:49] Dr. Scott Sherr: yeah, 

[00:11:50] Boomer Anderson: uh, I think they went belly up. But, um, the founder is kind of a friend and they were, they were one of the first to be able to take, [00:12:00] uh, certain. Uh, metabolites actually out of, um, your poop basically live in the toilet.

[00:12:08] Boomer Anderson: And this is this trend. And we'll get into what you guys do specifically. 'cause I'm always curious what people are doing here. Uh, is, is continuing because, and why do I, I think why is kind of interesting because if you look at. A metabolomics test costs you what? 500 to a thousand dollars? Right? Um, and it gives you point in time information, which is incredibly useful.

[00:12:32] Boomer Anderson: And the way I look at metabolomics testing is you redo it every six months. It gives you benchmarks, it allows you to shape your nutrients, your supplements, et cetera. But how do you keep yourself motivated between, um. Now in time, six months from now. And how do you actually make those behavior changes much faster?

[00:12:52] Boomer Anderson: The quantified self devices allow you to connect your behavior to a data point and create a tighter feedback loop. So it's no longer that six month feedback loop. Um, you're actually creating a behavior association. Using, um, point in time data, which as Ted said, that actual point in time data is not necessarily useful, but using those behavior changes to point out trends, uh, allows for much faster changes in behaviors, habits, et cetera, than 

[00:13:21] Dr. Ted: before.

[00:13:21] Dr. Ted: Well, it's, it's, um. Instant feedback. Right? A feedback loop. Yeah. Yeah. Um, wasn't there also a dream? Uh, again, this is Japanese company, I think, where they actually, uh, determined what was in your p and then depending on what's in your p is actually, uh, relay to a station. Oh. What. Uh, uh, vitamins, minerals, et cetera, you needed.

[00:13:43] Dr. Ted: And then they plan to actually have a machine in your house, right? And deliver all of, like, the necessary ingredients, and it'll create the pill for you that you needed based on the result of your pee. Or they could actually deliver, you know, uh, what is, I, I think it does the dream right. Uh mm-hmm. Um, I, I think that's still.

[00:14:03] Dr. Ted: Gonna go in in the future. 

[00:14:05] Boomer Anderson: That was kind of one of the ideas behind Soylent too. Yeah. Um, is to provide, you know, complete food. But also, uh, there are companies, and I know Ted, you actually helped start one of these in the Philippines that are trying to do these customized supplement packs. Mm-hmm. Right.

[00:14:21] Boomer Anderson: Um, but let's take the topic back to, to wearable and wearable technology. Um, would love to kind get into what's that. 

[00:14:29] Jodi Duval: Tell, tell us, tell us what you do then. What's your current regime when you are with your wearables at the moment? 

[00:14:36] Boomer Anderson: I have too many. Um, and I am going to explain away a few of them, but, so the main three are, uh, whoop.

[00:14:48] Boomer Anderson: Aura and ate sleep now. I, I have one well, whoop is because all of my clients like wrist wearables and also it's [00:15:00] probably the best activity tracker out there right now. I would actually say that Garmin or Suto might rival that or beat it, but, um, whoop is pretty easy to use and not really obtrusive when it comes to exercise and that kind of stuff.

[00:15:18] Boomer Anderson: Um. But I have whoop because most of my clients have it also with their new update, and I'm not endorsing them. Uh, I've never actually spoken to the founder of the company, but they, uh, have, uh, an ECG on your wrist. Uh, they also have something called whoop Age, where if you wear it for 21 days straight and the battery doesn't die, they'll.

[00:15:40] Boomer Anderson: Use the algorithm to basically forecast your age versus others. Aura is already doing something like this where they give you sort of a, an approximate cardiovascular age, um, based on your heart rate, et cetera. Um, I wear Aura and have worn them since they came out with the device, mainly because sleep is my number one opportunity when it comes to health and has, has been, uh, for a long time.

[00:16:08] Boomer Anderson: Uh, so it, it. And with, and I'll get to the sort of rationale behind the wearables in a second. Uh, but, and then finally the last one is the eight sleep. And that goes again, doubling down on sleep. Eight, sleep itself changes your temperature. Uh, it, they have now a dynamic adjustment so it changes your temperature throughout the night.

[00:16:29] Boomer Anderson: Uh, but you can also sleep. With two people in the same bed, uh, completely different sleep temperatures, uh, which prevents, uh, I'm guessing it prevents sleep, divorce for many people. Um, now 

[00:16:43] Dr. Ted: un unless people are snoring. So anyway, 

[00:16:46] Boomer Anderson: and so then you start to get into, and this isn't a wearable, but these, these like magnetic things on your nose and you open up your nose bridge.

[00:16:53] Boomer Anderson: Uh, that's incredible. Um, anyway, but, 

[00:16:57] Dr. Ted: uh, boomer actually endure, uh, uh, advised me that I should get eight sleep. But the problem with them is that they have no cut sized. And, um, as, uh, many of you guys know, I sleep on a cut. So anyway, we, 

[00:17:11] Boomer Anderson: we've tried to get him to not sleep on a cot. It's his choice. It's not necessarily that he iss forced to do it, uh, but I, I think try something mode.

[00:17:22] Boomer Anderson: Can I, can I just, uh, just go back to wearables because I think one of the things that I, I'll talk about wearables all day long. This is your 

[00:17:29] Dr. Scott Sherr: podcast. Actually. US need to talk anymore, so keep going. I'm sorry. 

[00:17:32] Boomer Anderson: Um, there's. More of a, a, a way to look at rationale for wearables. 'cause all of us have clients that can, you know, broadly be put in a couple of different buckets.

[00:17:43] Boomer Anderson: Uh, the first bucket is, you know, they haven't found health yet and they really need some help. Right? And wearables can be useful here to help them bring awareness to behaviors that they may not have otherwise known. Um. Or issues, [00:18:00] or opportunities for them to improve. So you have client bucket number one, and that's where wearables become useful.

[00:18:05] Boomer Anderson: You have client bucket number two, where, um, wearables become useful in that optimization realm. Uh, these are the people that we all love working with, right? They're your athletes, your corporate athletes, your, uh, entrepreneur types that are all just trying to optimize. Um. And they're using wearables to improve per like, single percentage points, right?

[00:18:26] Dr. Ted: Yeah. You mean data-driven militaristic types? 

[00:18:29] Boomer Anderson: Yeah. A disciplined, like a disciplined client, which I think all of us like, um, but, and then there's, there's sort of bucket three where you've over-optimized and I've certainly fell in this bucket before where you get, what do they call it? No, there's a technical term for this where you get anxiety over your data.

[00:18:46] Boomer Anderson: Uh. 

[00:18:47] Dr. Ted: Yes. Uh, it's orthorexia for eating ortho somnia for sleeping properly, you know? 

[00:18:53] Boomer Anderson: Yeah. 

[00:18:54] Dr. Ted: It's also everything. Ortho 

[00:18:55] Boomer Anderson: metric. So ortho, whatever. Uh, and, and so there you have people that end up in that realm and so. Uh, that's when you have to start to unwind them and take them off of wearables. Uh, I know Jody, that was one of your questions initially, and we can certainly get into that later, but, uh, I, I kind of bucket people in three categories, and luckily most of my clients are in categories two and three, and they're kind of consistently trading back between two and three.

[00:19:21] Boomer Anderson: Uh, you know, sometimes they're over optimized and then you need to back them off a little bit because really what are you trying to do? You're just building a habit. Um, and then once they have that habit, you let them run with it until they forget it, and then you help them build it back again. Cool. Mm 

[00:19:36] Jodi Duval: mm I think that's great.

[00:19:38] Jodi Duval: Um, summary. And then also I love how you've separated into the three areas, boomer, and I think a lot of clients, like you said, do fit into that. Um, I don't, I don't have much to mention here, but I just, I would like to add on to that because I see a lot of women in my practice and so the wearables can really help, um, take the pressure off cycle tracking.

[00:19:59] Jodi Duval: So I use the aura with clients and they find it again, they can be, actually, I get. 2, 1, 2 and three, um, brackets of clients and a lot of the ones in one are wanting and they come in entry point with, say, an aura because they wanna track, uh, their temperature and, and naturally look at their hormones. So it's something that I find to be really useful also for myself to actually know what is going on with that temperature, with the aura.

[00:20:23] Jodi Duval: And for me, yes, but least no 

[00:20:25] Dr. Ted: body temperature for fertility regulation. It's the worst thing. Yes. 

[00:20:30] Jodi Duval: No, no, no.

[00:20:35] Jodi Duval: Yeah. Good. Yeah, good for babies, good for not babies. Good for, 

[00:20:40] Dr. Ted: I was so ignorant. I actually trusted that method anyway. Trusted it. 

[00:20:45] Jodi Duval: Yeah, trusted the metrics, but it can help to support knowing also even a bit of thyroid as well. So it's just getting that, again, just that broad spectrum. Look at clients and how they are going across their days and also sleep and you know, what they're using and [00:21:00] what, what is causing them more stress.

[00:21:02] Jodi Duval: So I really feel, I like that resiliency in the stress piece. Especially with the aura, I find that I have days where I'll have sort of five to six hours of stress in my day and it's given me big warning signs. And then it will be, um, very reflective on when I actually have those days where I can wind down a bit or actually take breaks.

[00:21:20] Jodi Duval: So, as we've spoken about in other podcasts, getting the most out of the practitioner, it can be something that I find if I take the breaks, my stress hours go down in the day from my, from my wearable. Um. Also experimentation I really like with clients and myself, with the sleep and the deep sleep. So, talk Boomer, talking about a, um, high profile client or a, a, a high entrepreneur.

[00:21:41] Jodi Duval: Really a type, really metric driven, actually took themselves off the aura. So they didn't want to look at it anymore. Because even myself, I wake up in the morning, I'm like, Ooh, how'd I do? Ooh, ooh. And then when I do really bad, I'm like, oh no. So he was finding that this was happening and he was getting very disappointed because he was pushing his body too much.

[00:22:00] Jodi Duval: But now he took, he stepped away for three years and he is, come back to it. And he is, HRV was originally when he was at his lowest. Maybe 15 and now it's back up to 79. So now he's getting that motivation and he is get PO positive reinforcement from actually wearing again. But what we realized is that we thought that he was doing really well, but deep sleep was only 7% where it used to be actually.

[00:22:24] Jodi Duval: 25%. So that's one of the metrics that he was very surprised about, and now we're working towards that to actually build a little bit more deep sleep. So sometimes it can point things out as well that you were unaware of and you thought you were doing well in, whereas you maybe had some more improvements to make.

[00:22:40] Jodi Duval: So I found that to be very useful. 

[00:22:43] Dr. Ted: You know, I, uh, during the early generations of the aura, um, I used to drive it crazy because I traveled a lot. Right. It would your travel time zones and it didn't adjust to your time zone. No. It would give you all of these fucked up readings about your seat. Your score 

[00:22:58] Boomer Anderson: is negative.

[00:23:00] Dr. Ted: And there, there, there's, there's a guy, here's currently in Bali, but he's from Amsterdam. Mm-hmm. And let's see what this horror is saying right now. He's been there for a few 

[00:23:10] Boomer Anderson: days. He might be indulging in that like Bali Air and everything. And so it actually 

[00:23:17] Jup Kuipers: came up quite well last week, but I actually trained myself to just look at it once a week now.

[00:23:23] Jup Kuipers: 'cause I used to be that guy that woke up and looked at it, what, how did I do? But. I also was that guy that looked at my oral ring stats and saw, Hmm, you need to take a rest day, and went, Hmm, let's not do that. And just so the, the, the data didn't really drive my lifestyle behavior. So what I trained myself to do now is.

[00:23:47] Jup Kuipers: Uh, the, this, the data, the metric for me is a, is a mirror. It's not a master. So I try to train myself to intuitively feel where my body's at, and then look at the [00:24:00] data to see that that corresponds. But there are also many times when the data doesn't correspond and I actually feel really well, um, uh, I guess that's the, the most valuable skill for me.

[00:24:15] Jup Kuipers: I got from using these things is that you'll be able to like intuitively feel, am I stressed out right now? Should I take a break? You can build 

[00:24:22] Boomer Anderson: your intuition, right? That's, mm-hmm. That's a 

[00:24:24] Jup Kuipers: great 

[00:24:24] Boomer Anderson: insight. 

[00:24:25] Jup Kuipers: Yeah. 

[00:24:25] Boomer Anderson: Wow. 

[00:24:26] Jup Kuipers: And so that's how I use it now. Um, but Bali's been good for my HRV 'cause 

[00:24:33] Boomer Anderson: not much to do, but, and now he's checking it every day.

[00:24:37] Boomer Anderson: 'cause he's so excited to see it now. 

[00:24:38] Jup Kuipers: My, my data's good again. Yeah. 

[00:24:40] Dr. Ted: Yeah. Are any of your clients using this, yo. 

[00:24:46] Jup Kuipers: Um, I try to sell all my clients on at least having a wearable. Um, I have two types of clients mostly who are not prioritizing health at all, so I'm just giving them to get them into the habit of reflecting on their health and their sleep, et cetera.

[00:25:03] Jup Kuipers: And again, like the militaristic type, like jujitsu, guys, ex-military. When I asked them, how are you doing? Said great. My sleep is this, my HP is this, but how are you actually feeling? What do you mean my heart rate's this, I know my 

[00:25:19] Dr. Ted: data, but I dunno how I feel. Exactly. 

[00:25:23] Boomer Anderson: I love we all laugh. I love that. Like I started in this space and I was that person.

[00:25:28] Boomer Anderson: So it's, it's, 

[00:25:30] Dr. Ted: it's like this, right? Um, how do you feel, oh, let me check my order ring. 

[00:25:35] Boomer Anderson: What? Look, you guys are all laughing and I'm like, shit, I was that person six years ago. 

[00:25:41] Dr. Scott Sherr: It's not uncommon, especially for guys to have like a disconnect between all of that, right? We're just kind of in general, stereotypically oblivious.

[00:25:50] Dr. Scott Sherr: So, 

[00:25:51] Boomer Anderson: and I like YS point here that like there's a lot of people that spend a lot of time numbing themselves because they have to do. All kinds of things for their professional careers. And, um, you know, what he's doing with his clients is introducing wearables as a way to kind of re-familiarize with like, here's how my body works, here's how it feels, et cetera.

[00:26:11] Boomer Anderson: And then the thing about wearables is it's in a language that somebody can relate to, uh, because these guys oftentimes. Numbers, data 

[00:26:20] Dr. Scott Sherr: and information. Yes. Yeah. Yes. The scoring system competition really big. Yeah. 

[00:26:24] Jup Kuipers: Yeah. What I've been experimenting with with a client is that I have access to his data and so I check it for him periodically and if I see like his HRVs going down, I ping him from, Hey, hey man, what's up?

[00:26:35] Jup Kuipers: Is that something you do with clients? 

[00:26:39] Boomer Anderson: Like data. So I make every one of my clients give them, gimme access to their wearables. And, um, and it, you, you, you both, are you starting a share company? You 

[00:26:52] Dr. Ted: seem to have to have worked with, with each other before. Yeah, yeah, exactly. To use the same technique. 

[00:26:58] Boomer Anderson: Uh, am I [00:27:00] starting an insurance company?

[00:27:01] Boomer Anderson: Not yet. Uh, when, when Ted allows me to have more free time. Uh, but the. Uh, you know, the idea of just having a wearable so that you can. A basic conversation along over the course of if you're a seeing patient every couple months or every month, really, um, it allows you to check in with them too. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:27:24] Boomer Anderson: This is just the way I know how to work with people and the way I know how to drive change. And so if they don't have a wearable, it's likely that they're not a good fit for me anyway. But Scott, you kind of play both ends of the spectrum here. Um, what are you doing with clients these days or, or yourself, what kind of.

[00:27:43] Boomer Anderson: Kind of crazy stuff. Is there, I mean, you have access to all the oxygen things too, so tell us more. Yeah. 

[00:27:50] Dr. Scott Sherr: Well, I'm actually, what comes to mind initially is uh, I have a patient that. Will get all his wearable information and plug it into Chad TPT every single day. And then, and every day he gets different ideas of what to do because of all his wearable data.

[00:28:07] Dr. Scott Sherr: And then he was wearing once a lot, a continuous glucose monitor for a while. And every time his glucose would even go, like above a certain amount, he started to do like, you know, exercise is like, oh shit, my, my, my glucose is going on, my glucose is gone. This is like the ortho everything. So scenario that you were talking about early Yeah.

[00:28:20] Dr. Scott Sherr: Earlier, Jody. And, and it's, it's like a self. Perpetuating beast, um, for people. And, and so I, I definitely agree that. Some data is good, but too much data for most people is not a good idea. There are the people that, yeah, the old school people, but yeah, let's call it ortho Meria. 

[00:28:37] Dr. Ted: So yeah, the right measurement, the ortho meria, the right measurement.

[00:28:42] Dr. Ted: Okay. Yeah. 

[00:28:43] Boomer Anderson: Okay. I, we trademark the 

[00:28:45] Dr. Ted: Are you after orthos? 

[00:28:47] Boomer Anderson: Is there, is there any, is there any utility in trademarking this term? 

[00:28:51] Dr. Scott Sherr: There definitely is. I think before this goes live, boomer ortho, ortho metrics. Perfect Ortho metrics needs to ortho metrics and yeah, 

[00:28:57] Boomer Anderson: so if you're listening, it's already 

[00:28:58] Dr. Scott Sherr: been trademarked.

[00:28:58] Dr. Scott Sherr: Don't try. 

[00:28:59] Boomer Anderson: Yeah. David, 

[00:29:00] Dr. Scott Sherr: I'm dropping you an email right now. Trademarking Ortho Metrics md, but. And, and so he, that's an extreme example of somebody that is just so di like so close to the data that they have. Like they have no real clue how they feel. And yeah, I, I love your example of some of the dudes like, you know, reading off their numbers and telling you how they feel because I think that's so great.

[00:29:19] Dr. Scott Sherr: Um, because that's, it's so classic for dudes especially. Um, yeah, I, you know, I've never been as. Um, as, I guess prolific with my wearables as Boomer or has, or have Ted been, or as Ted had been. But I have used the Aura for, for many, many years now. Maybe, maybe, maybe not many, maybe three years. I remember I got a second hand of the big one, like the first generation from our friend Steve Angle.

[00:29:43] Dr. Scott Sherr: He gave me his hand me down at some point. Yes. Yeah. Hey Steve, if you're listening. Um, so he gave me his, like his hand hand me down, first generation. And I put it on. I remember like I was. Younger. I was older than you. Yeah. But I was like, maybe 35 or something, and I wore it for maybe four nights and my sleep was perfect.

[00:29:57] Dr. Scott Sherr: Every night I'm like, well, why do I need to wear this thing, [00:30:00] you know, goodbye. You know? And so that was, that was my first, this is when I was in the hospital overnight, so I, I was a good sleeper until I was 40. So good luck to a couple of you guys, ladies and gentlemen on, on this phone call, um, soon. Um. But since then, biologically it only gets worse.

[00:30:17] Dr. Scott Sherr: So 

[00:30:19] Jodi Duval: I refuse to believe that, oh, Jody, it only gets worse. 

[00:30:25] Dr. Scott Sherr: My 40th birthday weekend before I was in, in, in, in, uh, in, in Delaware with you guys before that, um, before with, with Boomer and Ted for a birthday celebration. Before that I was, I was in. Joshua Tree and I couldn't go to bed. It was like the first time in my life I was like staring up at the ceiling, like, why can't I sleep?

[00:30:44] Dr. Scott Sherr: And so just, you know, it was, it was a apropos for being 40, but, um, but what I found go, hello Scott. You're 

[00:30:49] Dr. Ted: 40 now. No more sleep for you. 

[00:30:52] Dr. Scott Sherr: I slept through four kids and whatever. But no, no more ortho somnia for you. Just ortho me ortho metrics now. Just regular insomnia. Yeah, just regular. Um, but what I found that it's sort of become more of an issue as I've gotten older for whatever reason is difficult for the mind to kind of quiet down before bed and harder to time to fall asleep.

[00:31:15] Dr. Scott Sherr: But I, I, when I fall asleep, no problem. And there are a lot of people that I've met of course, over the years that are very similar to this. So just finding ways, what's really been great for the aura for me. Is finding ways to how I can, you know, just downregulate my nervous system before I go to bed, and that as a result, see the benefit of, of getting better deep sleep, getting better.

[00:31:35] Dr. Scott Sherr: Overall metrics and things like that. Very much. Is recording a 

[00:31:38] Boomer Anderson: podcast right before bed a good idea 

[00:31:41] Dr. Scott Sherr: or not? Um, no. But you can do some like good breath work. You could take some trip. Awesome. Very cool. You know, you could, you could, uh, I don't know, do some antigravity boots or something. I dunno. Something maybe that would be the better one, but we'll take so through.

[00:31:52] Dr. Ted: Take them through Z and call it done. 

[00:31:54] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah. So there are phrase is gold. There are shortcuts in the sense that you can, and I tell my patients this all the time, like for me, I notice if I'm having a stressful day, today would be one of those days and it's all because of you three or four on the calling with me.

[00:32:07] Dr. Scott Sherr: No, just kidding. But um, like these are one of those days where I took tro calm like two hours ago, which is crazy. Like I never take it that early. But if I take it usually, like if I take it a couple hours before bed and I've had a stressful day, like my deep sleep will go up. An hour, sometimes up to an hour.

[00:32:22] Dr. Scott Sherr: So it's nice to be able to use things. And this is what I think the best thing for the, the wearables is you have a baseline and then when you do things around that, like what happens, right? And then as you said Ted earlier, doesn't really matter what the exact score is. If you HRV is 35, it's 35, fine.

[00:32:39] Dr. Scott Sherr: Right. But if you do, like if you have do something and all of a sudden it's 55, that's fantastic. Right. Whether you started off at. 85 and went to 105 or 35 hit five, like that's still really good, right? So it's not about the absolute number as is about, you know, what the trend is or what the changes are when you do various things.

[00:32:55] Dr. Scott Sherr: And so like it's easy for my, to my patients, like, have your alcohol and see what happens to your sleep. You're wearing a [00:33:00] wearable now, like you're gonna trash it and you're gonna see it. Right. Um, and you can say, like, be like, yep. Like, screw it. I'm gonna feel good anyway. I'm gonna do what I want because I'm, you know, 33.

[00:33:07] Dr. Scott Sherr: It doesn't fucking matter. But that's cool. I'm not jealous. Right. 

[00:33:13] Boomer Anderson: Okay. 

[00:33:15] Dr. Scott Sherr: Um, 

[00:33:17] Boomer Anderson: coffee. Coffee. Nicotines. 

[00:33:19] Dr. Ted: Scott screwing it up. Feels so good. So good. Yeah. Screwing up feels so good that the consequences on the day the next day doesn't really fucking matter. Doesn't one. Yeah. 

[00:33:33] Dr. Scott Sherr: There's somebody that I know that has this saying of happy pain-free.

[00:33:38] Dr. Scott Sherr: You can wake up, refresh. Um, 

[00:33:40] Dr. Ted: yeah. Hey, hey, don't mangle my mantra. So, 

[00:33:47] Boomer Anderson: um, 

[00:33:47] Dr. Ted: one that mantra by the way is happy healthy. Wake up refreshed. Equus Day. Right. That's my pain. Pain free. That's my mantra. Mantra. Pain free. What about pain free? I thought pain free was healthy. Pain-free. Wake up 

[00:33:59] Boomer Anderson: refreshed. 

[00:34:01] Dr. Ted: Ous day. Yeah.

[00:34:01] Dr. Ted: Yeah. 

[00:34:02] Boomer Anderson: Um, so I don't think Happy was in there initially. That's nice. Yeah. 

[00:34:06] Dr. Ted: Healthy. Yeah, it was healthy. Pain free. Wake up refreshed. The quantum was day, and that was my, that's my citation every night that I, uh, decide to trash my, uh, data. So, 

[00:34:18] Boomer Anderson: and la lately that's been ai, which, I mean, it's called this. Just take off the ring and put it aside.

[00:34:24] Boomer Anderson: If you 

[00:34:24] Dr. Scott Sherr: know it's gonna be bad, everybody just take it off and just leave it be okay. I mean, it, 

[00:34:30] Boomer Anderson: it can also, for the people that actually do have a problem, uh, in trashing themselves too much, it could also bring awareness to what you're doing. To yourself. Uh, one thing I wanted to bring up that Jody mentioned was that, you know, in clients where you see these dramatic shifts with, um, let's say deep sleep stages or whatever, and there's no explanation, I, I think it's actually useful to go to the company's website and check on their algorithm updates because, uh, when, when it comes to particularly, um, the companies that we've mentioned today, when they flip the algorithm, you can see.

[00:35:05] Boomer Anderson: Sizable shifts of 10% or more overnight, and it doesn't really make any sense. And they tell you that the data's getting better. And they also told you before that the data was already good. Uh, and so I think it over time, you just need to pay attention to those updates. So, uh, whatever one you decide to buy, just.

[00:35:24] Boomer Anderson: Subscribe to their PR team's, newsletters or whatever, and just make sure you're aware when they flip the algorithm, because a lot of times you can cause yourself ortho. What's the one we're trademarking? Ortho, 

[00:35:36] Dr. Ted: ortho, ortho 

[00:35:38] Boomer Anderson: or ortho meria by just is the 

[00:35:40] Dr. Ted: condition of having all of your data conformed to what is optimal.

[00:35:45] Dr. Ted: Yeah. And that the process is called ortho metrics. Right. 

[00:35:48] Boomer Anderson: So, so when you have the condition that's h just mentioned, uh, ortho Metritis.

[00:35:58] Dr. Scott Sherr: Rheumatoid inflammation of your rheumatoid [00:36:00] ortho. Oh, my itis. The itis is bad. This week, 

[00:36:05] Boomer Anderson: guys. I The itis. The itis and then the itis gets caused by algorithm adjustments. 

[00:36:10] Dr. Ted: Uh, remember there was like. You had ortho society because you were like anxious about your anxiety, about the, the correct values. So it's likeso anxiety.

[00:36:24] Dr. Ted: Your, your an angst thing about your, your, uh, uh, sleep metrics. Yeah. 

[00:36:30] Boomer Anderson: Um, so one, one thing that I find that's, uh, Jody before we round off here, that that's a really cool trend in this space. And what I, I'm glad is getting a lot of tension is using wearables for women's health because, uh, that is a community that's very underserved when it comes to scientific research.

[00:36:50] Boomer Anderson: And there's a few people that are at least trying to, um, inform themselves. And, and there's large group projects around this too. Um. With companies like Personal Science and a few others that are trying to do large scale women's health products or projects, um, and research. So I think that's a pretty cool trend, uh, that we see going on anyway.

[00:37:13] Jodi Duval: Yeah. And Aura I find has been quite, um, correct with many of my clients. And put a ring on it. Put a ring on it, guys. That's their, 

[00:37:22] Dr. Scott Sherr: that's their new ad. Do you guys see it? It's put a ring on it. Yeah.

[00:37:28] Dr. Ted: Yeah. Together with something like this, 

[00:37:30] Dr. Scott Sherr: they, they use the index fingers, put a ring on it like this. You, I mean this is, this is actually my wedding rings. Yeah. Don't they have like the wedding version? You can order with a dime. You're married to your work. That's what my wife said when I, it was the only, the only ring that I wear, my war ring.

[00:37:45] Dr. Scott Sherr: You're married to your work. They, they 

[00:37:46] Boomer Anderson: did a collaboration with Gucci too, and it was one sold out within like a day. Thomas. Um, yeah. 

[00:37:53] Jodi Duval: Some diamond one as well. Yeah. So anyway, I think that's a, I think that's a good wrap. Wrap up. 

[00:37:57] Boomer Anderson: Final worries. Put 

[00:37:59] Jodi Duval: a ring on it. Yeah, don't take it too seriously and don't get itis out of it.

[00:38:05] Dr. Scott Sherr: You can throw some tos. There's some Robitussin on it. 

[00:38:07] Boomer Anderson: We do have, if people wanna actually dive into this a little bit more, we have a couple of episodes. Uh, Gary Wolf, who founded Quantified Self and now is termed it Personal Science as well as Bob Troya, and you can dive a little bit more into the self experimentation world.

[00:38:25] Dr. Ted: Yeah, absolutely. Yes. And, um, remember when, when, uh, they said n equals one, uh, type of, uh, of, uh, diagnostics. Uh, and this is actually where it went, right? So yeah. This is n equals one data and it's for you and you alone. 

[00:38:43] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah. Yeah. And eventually Ted, I think that's, is this. Huge data set on individuals and being able to use models and Ted can tell you what type to be able to crunch all that together and [00:39:00] become this sort of personal narcissistic picture of you.

[00:39:03] Dr. Scott Sherr: We call it the narcissism, you know, for omics, but there's gonna be something similar for all these data metrics and being able to be very predictive as a result of all these huge data sets over time, which 

[00:39:13] Dr. Ted: again. To bring back to home Hope. Right? Which is again, you know, uh, the way we do things with Home Hope is that, uh, we do things, uh, uh, for the.

[00:39:24] Dr. Ted: Person, right? So the n equals to one. So it's a, a personalized, uh, balancing, uh, and so on. Uh, then therefore this is the qualitative statistics that we're looking for, right? So, uh, and, and, uh, I don't know when. Qualitative statistics got such a bad rap, right? Um, but you know, in home hope, uh, qualitative statistics is what we're after.

[00:39:48] Dr. Ted: And, uh, you know, because quantitative statistics is, uh, actually true for large numbers of populations that have to respond to antibiotics or to a surgical technique. So, uh, you know, we are here, we're actually, you know, it's bad that we actually have to resurrect the entire. Uh, statistics of, uh, uh, of, uh, quantitative, uh, statistics, right?

[00:40:09] Dr. Ted: So, uh, and this a personal, um, these, uh, uh, devices, the wearable devices are actually a testament to the, that, um, uh, resurrection of the whole, uh, quantitative statistics research, qualitative statistics, research rather. 

[00:40:27] Jodi Duval: Absolutely. All right. I think that's a good ending. So everyone, thank you so much for sharing all your wearable stories, clients, patience, and until next time, we will see you on the Smarter Not Podcast.

[00:40:43] Jodi Duval: Bye 

[00:40:46] Jup Kuipers: bye guys.

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