In this episode of the Smarter Not Harder Podcast, Boomer Anderson, Dr. Theodore Achacoso, Dr. Scott Sherr, Jodi Duval, Dr. Jup Kuipers, and Dr. Allen Bookatz give one-cent solutions to life’s $64,000 questions that include:

• Why is objective testing essential in health optimization, and what are the risks of relying on symptom-based guessing?

• How have misconceptions about genetics, gut health, and detox protocols shaped — and sometimes misled — modern health practices?

• What lessons have emerged from personal experiences with extreme diets, over-supplementation, and aggressive biohacking strategies?

• How has the understanding of practices such as intermittent fasting and probiotic use evolved with advancements in both clinical and experiential knowledge?

What We Discuss:

00:00 Decision Fatigue and Why Practitioners Feel “Over It”
01:13 Welcome to the Smarter Not Harder Podcast
03:10 Stress, Recovery, and the Cost of Constant Output
04:15 Simple Strategies to Manage Burnout Daily
05:58 The Surprising Link Between Coffee and Recovery
10:02 Cortisol: The Hormone Practitioners Must Understand
17:56 How to Balance Cortisol Without Burning Out
18:42 The Case for Hydrocortisone in High-Performance Contexts
19:19 What Is Health Optimization Medicine?
20:16 Supplements That Actually Support Stress Recovery
20:47 Faculty Share Their Personal Recovery Protocols
24:21 Pets, Presence, and the Unlikely Tools That Heal
30:51 Final Thoughts: Recovery as a Practice, Not a Break

Full Transcript:

[00:00:00] Dr. Ted Achacoso: What stresses me out or what tires me actually is more the proper term is decision fatigue, right? Um, you can be doing so many things in a day and it's fine, right? But when you have to make so many decisions in a day that are going to impact your patients, you know, your family, uh, your business, uh, that people in your business and so on, you know, then that actually calls for.

[00:00:26] Dr. Ted Achacoso: A short walk around the block, right? Uh, get out, get out there and walk. Be in nature. Uh, you know, just get away from the place where you are, get the, your circulation going. Um, and uh, the other thing you could do also is. To close your eyes and take a quick nap, right? Uh, five to minute nap would be love a nap refreshing for you.

[00:00:49] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Um, for me, the worst thing that I do is actually eat something sweet, because then you have this initial rush and then ka, you know, down goes your. Over again.

[00:01:13] Dr. Scott Sherr: Welcome back everybody to the Smarter or Not Harder podcast, where we give you 1 cent solutions to $64,000 questions. I am joined today by the lovely faculty here at home Hope and excited for the next amazing topic, Dr. Bookatz, take it away. 

[00:01:31] Boomer Anderson: All right, do first. First, Dr. Bookatz. How are you gonna beat that voice?

[00:01:36] Dr. Allen Bookatz: You know, it's, I gotta go real deep and real low. Oh, nice. Make sure I speak from deep, deep in my lower chest. Your diaphragm. My in my Pel. I'm speaking from my pelvis. Oh wait. This is, are you ready? Are you ready to hear the next topic? On the Smarter Non Harder podcast? This is a group that plays hard then.

[00:02:03] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Pays hard and then, 

[00:02:06] Jodi Duval: and then recovers hard, 

[00:02:07] Dr. Allen Bookatz: recovers even harder. And we're gonna learn from these very talented by not hackers, how they do such things with their lives. So looking at here, looking at who's had probably the most fun over the weekend, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have to look at the, uh, the man who's.

[00:02:31] Dr. Allen Bookatz: The man who started this all. Who leads the leads, the smarter not harder team, the chief Executive officer, chief Enlightenment officer of two companies, boomer Kenneth Anderson. Take us away 

[00:02:48] Boomer Anderson: just because he used the K word. I might not answer the question. All right, so you just black out. I think I can. I can play politician here and say, how do you dare call me that and just.[00:03:00] 

[00:03:00] Boomer Anderson: Ms. Ms. Uh. Okay. So, uh, it was, by the way, for anybody listening to this, Jodi is, uh, the curator of the question. And it's a very good one because I think all of us listening here have stress in our lives. And I think there's a point where, and actually they call it the Yorks Dodson effect, uh, the point where stress actually is most optimal and gets you to do things.

[00:03:27] Boomer Anderson: And then there's a sort of. Dose dependent curve whereby you can overdo it. And I'll, I'll kind of plot this in degrees because there's different degrees of when you need to, uh, when you're over it, right? And so there's, when you're over it, when you've had six hours of zoom meetings in a day, uh, there's, when you're over it, when somebody, you know, pushes you over the edge and you just need.

[00:03:57] Boomer Anderson: A little while to recover. And then there's, when you're over it, when you truly, truly need a break. Um, and that could look like, uh, if your cortisol is flatlining, you probably need a break. If you, uh, have what some people may deem burnout, you probably need a break. So. Let's go with, um, let's go with the first one.

[00:04:17] Boomer Anderson: If you've had six to eight hours of Zoom meetings, uh, what would you do for a break? And, uh, my answer here was I, I just like walked down the street to the, um, museum of Contemporary Art in Chicago and or to the Art Institute. Just change scenery. Um. Looking at something different, completely unrelated to what I do during the day.

[00:04:41] Boomer Anderson: It also helps spur creativity to help solve some of those problems. Uh, the other thing is going to the gym, probably my favorite thing, but Dr. Ted likes to remind me that there's two kinds of stress. There's physical stress, and then there's mental stress. Um, this. Although in the past I thought this was the greatest way to get rid of both.

[00:05:01] Boomer Anderson: Uh, it turns out you have to train the mental stress side of it too. So, uh, there are certain days where a gym and a punching bag certainly do a good job. Uh, and, and then the last one on the sort of stress level is when your cortisol is flat lining, or if you need. To just really take a break from it all.

[00:05:22] Boomer Anderson: And for me, that's change of scenery. Um, going to a different spot, a different place likely in nature. Uh, will gimme a nice little break from it all. But that's, uh. A quick three quick ways that I dance around the question. I actually answered your question. So I'm not really doing a good job being a politician, am I?

[00:05:43] Boomer Anderson: No, that's good. And you structured it 

[00:05:44] Jodi Duval: well. I like the differentiation of how over it you are. Yeah, yeah. Different degrees of 

[00:05:49] Boomer Anderson: over it. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it's, uh, it's a regular practice, so, you know, gotta get into it. So, you know, I 

[00:05:58] Dr. Allen Bookatz: know you're a big connoisseur [00:06:00] of, of coffee and so, you know, when you're at the Museum of Contemporary Art, is that, is that a, an acronym for.

[00:06:07] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Is Mocha the acronym for that? 

[00:06:12] Boomer Anderson: How dare you have a, like how dare you insult the coffee. Coffee with Mocha. Uh, get a mocha. You did hint at, you Did Hint at if it's a very minor sort of I'm over it. And I just need to change my scene. I, I will go down to a cafe that is non Starbucks and order something that resembles actual coffee.

[00:06:31] Boomer Anderson: So black coffee, IAKA filter coffee or a double espresso. Uh, I'm sorry, some of us don't order our ccinos or whatever the hell you get. Anyway, 

[00:06:43] Jodi Duval: show us. Those 

[00:06:43] Boomer Anderson: are really good nearby here in Boulder. I gotta tell you. They're outstanding. Yeah. Continue 

[00:06:48] Dr. Allen Bookatz: insulting the coffee color's. Real, real coffee drinks. Um, speaking of real coffee drinks, we have, uh, one of our resident green tea almond macha latte experts here, Dr.

[00:07:03] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Scott. Sure. Tell us, tell us how you use those polyphenols 

[00:07:09] Boomer Anderson: to. I'm over it. I'm over it. I'm going get something. I'm over this insulting coffee.

[00:07:21] Dr. Scott Sherr: Mic drop. Get outta here, boomer. Right. So, 

[00:07:23] Boomer Anderson: yeah. 

[00:07:23] Dr. Scott Sherr: Um, I think you did a good, yeah, you did a good job, boomer. Trying to delineate the types of being over it. I, I think that I tend as to some of the other people on this chat as well over schedule and not allow very many breaks in between. When I do. Hammer out seeing lots of patients or lots of zoom calls or whatever it might be.

[00:07:46] Dr. Scott Sherr: Uh, one thing I learned recently from a podcast guest actually, uh, Dr. Bryce Applebaum, he was somebody I interviewed earlier this year. He's a opt ophthalmologist, ophthalmologist, optometrist, one of the two. I think he's an optometrist. One of the things he said is, um. Even if you can't get up outta the chair, just stop looking at your screen and look far away.

[00:08:08] Dr. Scott Sherr: Even if you can do it for like 20 seconds, it's much better for your eyes. And you'll find that your eyes won't get as tired throughout the, by the end of the day or by the end of your Zoom marathon if you just do that, like look away from the screen. Um, so that's one thing that, that I'll do. Um, another one, you know, real briefly is just.

[00:08:27] Dr. Scott Sherr: Stretch or just walk outside for like five seconds if I can't, even if I'm gonna be late for another call, just because it, it resets me a little bit more and I am more present and, um, not over it for the next call kind of thing. Um, in general, my days end in the infrared sauna as well, and I find that's a great way just to relax and.

[00:08:53] Dr. Scott Sherr: Sweating and detoxifying as it's called, or whatever you want. It's just a, a place for me [00:09:00] to be by myself, you know, you guys know on that are listening many. And then of course all of you that here, that I have, there are six people in my family. So every time we go out for dinner, the tip is always included.

[00:09:09] Dr. Scott Sherr: So don't have to calculate anything, but it becomes quite, it becomes quite busy in my home. And so when we were back in California, when we were living in a three bedroom, one bathroom, one bathroom house, a thousand square feet for all of us, I had. That's when I bought the sauna. It was my most expensive purchase outside of the house.

[00:09:27] Dr. Scott Sherr: Um, at that time. So I will go in the sauna every night, typically, and then even more after a conference and being, you know, very over, uh, jet lag and sleep de deprivation and talking to people for four days straight. So, um, that's a big one. And then, um, hydration's also really, really important too. And so when I get back from a, a big trip like we just did, I'm, I'm using lots of salt water.

[00:09:54] Dr. Scott Sherr: To hydrate me and, uh, not very much coffee and maybe a little bit of green tea matcha almond milk latte. So, 

[00:10:01] Dr. Ted Achacoso: so, hey, hey. You know, Scott, um, there was a, a study a while back, um, where you know how to relieve yourself of depression instantly when you're just like totally over it. When you're sitting down is, uh, to face a bright light and to look upwards and rightwards.

[00:10:19] Dr. Ted Achacoso: And that's because the, the, the. Light will hit your left side of a retina project onto your right brain, right? And then, and then, uh, doing that will actually, uh, lift your mood, right? Uh, because the, the, uh, nonverbal perception of lightness or brightness is actually down there, uh, up there, down there, or up there in your right brain.

[00:10:43] Dr. Ted Achacoso: So, um, you know, so much better. You know, that was, uh, one of the tips that, that was I was given before. That's why I was actually fascinated. By, by this, uh, podcast guest who actually said that they're looking afar, that's just relaxing the muscles of your eyes, right? Uh, but then this one is like relieving, you know, these temporary doldrums, like temporary down mood because you're just so over what you're doing.

[00:11:06] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Um, you know, and, and it actually, uh, uh, helps, you know, I, I, I tried that, you know, it won't work for long, but at least it helps with the work. 

[00:11:17] Boomer Anderson: Forgiving you for insulting coffee. 

[00:11:22] Dr. Allen Bookatz: I mean, that, that's a, uh, that's a appropriate, maybe that's a good lead into Dr. Ted. I was gonna say, you know, a, a man who needs no sauna as he comes from the Philippines, which is just one huge large outdoor sauna.

[00:11:36] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Um. 

[00:11:37] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Are you fucking kidding me? I was so over everything, including life until when I was 40. So I decided to train myself in anti-Asian medicine and nutritional medicine so that the two year training actually told me to reset my hormones and the adrenal reset. Which for your fatigue and everything else, and to manage everything else.

[00:11:56] Dr. Ted Achacoso: So you, the, the, um, [00:12:00] so that you don't get all of these burnouts, right? Uh, one of the most common, uh, complaints is adrenal burnout, for example. And I see that in many of my patients, right? So, uh, you know, you, you either are still well. You know, seven to 10 grams of, of, uh, gland just sitting on top of your kidneys with no parasympathetic intervention.

[00:12:20] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Are you fucking with me? That that's a really, and then, and then a hyper stimulative, sympathetic world, you're gonna get it right. Uh, but, um, you know, for me that was, uh, that has been the, the Rolls Royce of, uh, stress management. Not only stress management, but you know, uh, a burnout, uh, management. Uh, but the more important thing for me is that.

[00:12:42] Dr. Ted Achacoso: What stresses me out or what tires me actually is more the proper term is decision fatigue, right? Um, you can be doing so many things in a day and it's fine, right? But when you have to make so many decisions in a day that are going to impact your patients, you know, your family, uh, your business, uh, that people in your business and so on, you know, then that actually calls for.

[00:13:08] Dr. Ted Achacoso: A short walk around the block, right? Uh, get out, get out there and walk. Be in nature. Uh, you know, just get away from the place where you are, get the, your circulation going. Um, and uh, the other thing you could do also is. To close your eyes and take a quick nap, right? Uh, five minute nap would be love a nap refreshing for you.

[00:13:31] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Um, for me, the worst thing that I do is actually eat something sweet because then you have this initial rush and then ka, you know, down goes your mood over again. But, uh, for me, what to watch out for, you know, so your balance, hormonally your balance with your. With their nutritional metabolites via health optimization and all of that, that's all fine.

[00:13:54] Dr. Ted Achacoso: But during the day, you know, what is it that fatigues you? Uh, uh, most, right? Uh, there is a, a hormetic stress or eustress stress that's good for you, that like exercise and so on, and there's this prolonged exposure to just sympathetic. Stressors, right? They, uh, as I said, we built a highly sympathetic world, right?

[00:14:17] Dr. Ted Achacoso: We're, we're, we're not really adapted to that kind of stress. And then nature is onto to it that we actually had very little glance to cope with that. And cortisol is demonized by everyone, right? So without even measuring anything, uh, you know, they say, why are you taking hydrocortisone? Why are you doing this?

[00:14:35] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Why doing that? You know, it's, it's not even seen in a context with a network, but we should balance both. The nutrients and the hormones in the body. So once you have that, then at least you have a nice baseline not to burn out. Burn out, like you really have to go, you know, hide in a cave and not see anyone for a thousand years.

[00:14:55] Dr. Ted Achacoso: But, uh, uh, that is, is like, I think the, the best, uh, thing for [00:15:00] me is finding out what really stressed me out. What was. Um, inner innovating me what was, you know, uh, robbing me of my energy. And that for me is usually at my age at decision fatigue, right? Because by now, you know, the consequences of your decisions will affect everyone else and, uh, you know, ev and all the other lives that they touch.

[00:15:22] Dr. Ted Achacoso: So when, when, when it comes to that point and you, you're going to be making a decision just because you're irritated about something, you know, that's when you pause and. Set it down and, you know, go for a walk. Right? And that, that for me is my, um, uh, my go-to, right? Since I've already had, you know, uh, I was already so over it when I was 40, so.

[00:15:49] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Dr. Ted, can we go back to something you mentioned that, that, you know, you're comfortable using cortisol or using, um, hydrocortisone and the various, you know, glucocorticoids that are available. Yeah. Can you share just your opinion why an illness, medicine, when we identify someone that does have, you know, adrenal fatigue and or burnout, like why, why, why do we don't see that really being used?

[00:16:13] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Because we are not used to giving, uh, non superficial logic doses of hormones. Like when, when I do that, I make sure that all my other hormones are balanced, right? Or within the range of 21 to 30 years old, right? So, um, you know, by training. We're trained to push your, your major hormones to the age between, uh, to about 25 years old or here in the United States, about 30 years old.

[00:16:41] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Right. And it's considered the optimal range for your hormones. Uh, but we're not trained to do that in illness medicine. We're trained to vilify. Hydrocortisone. Right? Because, well, you know, uh, even if we know fully well that with six hours without, without cortisol and you're dead, right? It's maintained by the body at such a narrow range.

[00:17:05] Dr. Ted Achacoso: So, and we're not trained. The, the, the thing that I tell my, my patients tell their doctors, like, why are you taking hydrocortisone? It. Well, we measured it and a, actually my 8:00 AM cortisol is poor. Right? And then you could take the diurnal rhythm of the cortisol and you could see why the patient has been is, is, cannot sleep, uh uh, you know, sleeps so early and wakes up, uh, and wakes up so late.

[00:17:29] Dr. Ted Achacoso: You could see the face advances, et cetera. We're not trained to do that. We're trained to use cortisol as a drug. We're not trained to use hormones in general as agents for health. So, uh, in fact, I, I, I did tell, uh, Scott before he said, oh, you mean physiologic doses? No, not even physiologic. 'cause physiologic doses may even be higher than the doses that you're giving.

[00:17:51] Dr. Ted Achacoso: So the term of art really is non superficial logic doses. Right. Um, I have a, you know, we know of a dear friend of [00:18:00] ours who's, you know, uh, whose uh, daughter is an endocrinologist and he's a cardiologist, and you know, the daughter said, oh, you're taking superficial logic doses. And I said, so, so, but when faced with the values of his, uh, uh, cortisol levels, it's like, oh, this is not superficial logic.

[00:18:18] Dr. Ted Achacoso: This is really merely for balancing. Right. So, so you could see that, that thinking that, that for us, a disease-based, uh, time of, uh, uh, type of, of thinking, you know, that has to go when you have to go, when you have to move towards yourself, right? Sometimes you just, just give a little, sometimes you give a lot depending on how much you, uh, uh, that the, uh, patient, the client, or yourself actually needs, right?

[00:18:42] Dr. Ted Achacoso: And, and you know that, um, you know, when I was a, a consulting in, in, in Europe before. You know, before, for example, uh, uh, a, uh, a race, right, say a triathlon or something, it was not illegal to give your athletes actually hydrocortisone to minimize the inflammation during the run. And they actually end up a lot healthier, uh, because of that.

[00:19:07] Dr. Ted Achacoso: You know, you can have the wear and tear, but at least the inflammation is controlled and doesn't cause the, you know, the, the chronic damage that they normally would where the inflammation, uh, not quelled immediately. So I said is the kinds of things that requires a change in perspective when you're dealing with health versus dealing with disease.

[00:19:27] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Uh, and, and, and that's, uh, I think, uh, is an important shift that we're doing in health optimization medicine, is that we work with networks, you know, we shift them to optimal ranges. And that in itself, if you, if you have, you know, I, I'm sure you've had successes with your, with your clients or with your patients, you see that they actually don't complain of burnout anymore, right?

[00:19:51] Dr. Ted Achacoso: They, they, they look forward to actually see. Saying, okay, how do I medic mitigate this kind of stress or that kind of stress? But it's not a burnout anymore. And that is actually very satisfying because now they're sensitive to what it is that stresses them rather than, you know, wholesale, I don't wanna do this anymore.

[00:20:12] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Right. 

[00:20:12] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So, 

[00:20:14] Dr. Ted Achacoso: uh, 

[00:20:15] Dr. Allen Bookatz: that's, thank you Dr. Ted. Yeah. If you, if anyone were to go on any supplement. You know, website, one of the first things you'll see is stress support, right? And there's lots of herbs and occasionally you'll find a glandular, which is bi, which is I bioidentical. And um, and so no, thank you for that, for bringing that back home.

[00:20:36] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Speaking of herbs, we have our resident naturopath here with us. Nicely done. Damn. Dropping the 

[00:20:44] Boomer Anderson: segue. Yeah. 

[00:20:45] Jodi Duval: Yeah, that's a good segue. Um, um, yeah. I must say I am a big fan of hydrocortisone for jet lag now since I travel to the US every year now, and it saved me the last time I [00:21:00] came back. Oh my goodness. So, yeah, it's, it's really hard.

[00:21:04] Jodi Duval: I feel like it's, it's this lag time, um, not just jet lag, but it's the lag time after, and it can be 2, 3, 4 months that you're still feeling that in different, you know, physiological systems, um, you know, hair loss and all these other things that come up from that, that what you believe is such a short term stressor.

[00:21:25] Jodi Duval: Because you've backed it up before and you've then, you know, the whole time you're there and then you come back and you're straight back into work. As Scott said, we, you know, we're all sort of very type A or very much pushing the boundaries and not taking breaks and, um, I'm no different. I will see, you know, 10 clients in a row and.

[00:21:44] Jodi Duval: Forget to eat and forget to drink and then get home and my brain is, I don't know where, I don't even remember driving home 'cause my brain is completely, 'cause we, we put so much energy into seeing our clients and you know, involving ourselves in every single part of that as you all do. So. What I do when I get home is try not to talk.

[00:22:07] Jodi Duval: I don't talk at all to anyone, although it's hard with kids. As you know, Scott, they'll be like, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom, mom. So I'm like, just tell me your stories and I'm not gonna talk. Um. But yeah, I, I love, uh, saunas and, and all the recovery, um, components that, that I, I use. Sometimes I feel like that's even too much stress.

[00:22:30] Jodi Duval: So if I get home in the day and it's been a, it's been a really big day and the sunshine out sun is my biggest recovery. I love laying in the sun on my deck. Um, I'll lay in the grass and, um, it sounds really weird, but. As little close as possible on the grass in the sun with my, with my arms in the air like this and just holding my arms up like that.

[00:22:57] Jodi Duval: And. Close my eyes and I'm recovered in instead of five to 10 minutes and I can get up and I've got some energy again. Um, so it's just completely turning myself off. Meditation I find is, is useful, but if I've had this really busy brain, um, I'll either fall asleep or I'll feel a little bit agitated still, so I sort of need to be able to do something different.

[00:23:19] Jodi Duval: Prevention for me is also the biggest that I need to be looking at because if I don't eat, I get way more fatigued. And so I know that if I don't do the things for me and I've become much better at it because I can get better outcomes and better performance in my days. And then better sleep at night and on, on and on it goes.

[00:23:38] Jodi Duval: Um, so if I drink enough, have enough tea, don't have too much coffee, and then actually eat lunch. Wow. Miraculous difference. The simple things can just do it. So, um, yeah, I guess that's, that's what I like, all the fancy things, you know, I love dancing as well, so I'll get home if it's not a workout [00:24:00] that I don't wanna be working too hard because of the.

[00:24:03] Jodi Duval: The stress, the hormetic stress. I will do a little dance, a little bit of weights and just flow and move my body. So, um, that makes me feel a lot better. So yeah, that's me too. 

[00:24:13] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Wow. That's great. 

[00:24:14] Jodi Duval: My little, yeah. Yeah. 

[00:24:16] Dr. Allen Bookatz: We've heard, we've heard a lot today, Dr. Bocas. Yeah. I guess ER 

[00:24:19] Dr. Scott Sherr: doc. 

[00:24:20] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Yeah. I guess what you got, man?

[00:24:21] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So yeah, as an ER doc, I mean, I definitely res share with the rest of the group with seeing people, patients back to back in a intense situation. And, um. And it can be really, it can be really hard to leave all that stuff at the hospital. And so I think I, I sort of look at it like, you know. Actually, you heard my co-host earlier.

[00:24:44] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Um, he's, he's in the other room, but he wanted to remind everybody that, um, that he was an integral part of my stress relief. His name's Wally. He's a five-year-old goldendoodle, and he's got quite the personality. And, um, one of the things that I, that I learned to do with him is, is, uh, is so I'm, I lead the ER every day and so I'm, I'm also the medical director, so I'm in charge of lots and lots of stuff.

[00:25:09] Dr. Allen Bookatz: And I have to direct things and tell people what to do and follow up on lots of stuff in addition to the clinical work. And so what I'll, what I'll do is I'll take him out and I'll just let him direct me. Um, and so instead of going on our typical route where, you know, he knows what, we both kind of know what the expectation is, like this is the corner where he's gonna go to the bathroom and we're gonna sort of hurry around.

[00:25:36] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Um, I, you know, we, we sort of take a turn from the predictable route and we, you know, and I think by disrupting the rhythm of the routine, then, you know, and shifting those gears and choosing that sort of different direction, like. Having no agenda, no deadline, and a shared sort of pause together. I, I find that he ends up, I just kind of watch and observe what he's doing, and I'm able to sort of get outta my own head and world and I watch what he does.

[00:26:09] Dr. Allen Bookatz: And so I, I find one of the things that we've called them, we've called these little adventures, is, uh, like a sniff quest. And what he'll do is, you know, when he knows he's on a, a new route, he'll, he'll sort of like light up and his tail will wag and he'll like, get all animated and he'll go and he'll find things that he sniffs and, and I just like watch him sniff and he just goes like, just wild.

[00:26:29] Dr. Allen Bookatz: It's like this whole olfactory adventure and, you know, every scent is like this whole story that he's unfolding. And I don't know, something is, uh, something is just really special about. Sort of sharing with him in like this delight as he uncovers, like whatever he's sniffing, right? And I just look and it's, you know, it looks, it's probably just yearned from another dog on some flowers, but I like to imagine he's like sniffing the, sniffing the actual flowers.

[00:26:57] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So, um, it's one of those things that just reminds me to slow [00:27:00] down and, um. And, uh, in those times, um, you kind of shift from doing things to just being, and, you know, there's no, there's no goal. There's, um, you know, and I just sort of let him do what he needs to do with as long as it takes. So I find that it, it helps really, like, recharge me.

[00:27:19] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So for those that do, those of us that do have animals, uh, or kids, maybe there's some sort of equivalent that you can do with them. Uh, that's something that I found really helps. Um. Another thing, uh, just, uh, we have, uh, the transcriptions team is here and there's a product called TRO Calm that I'm a huge fan of.

[00:27:39] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So sometimes we just need a little help changing our state and, you know, we come home and we're very sympathetic and we're just can't seem to shake off whatever was at work. And so being able to, and we know we need to have like things that we need to do that are really good for us, right? Whether it's like meditation or listen to music or.

[00:27:58] Dr. Allen Bookatz: You know, find a, find a more helpful rhythm, and it's just hard to do that. So I'll, I'll take a, and I'll take like a full TRO home and then I'll kind of sit there and just sort of wait. And then you can feel your state change. You're not drunk or you're not, you know, you're not drowsy. And, um, when your state changes, then it just becomes a lot easier to do things like meditate or breath work or again, do the sniff quest.

[00:28:23] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So those things I've found, um, are super helpful. 

[00:28:28] Jodi Duval: Well, that's, so, I, I love that Sniff West with a dog myself as well. I just, yeah. I, mm-hmm. I, I do that too. I'm like, mm-hmm. Oh, I almost get angry at him to start with. I'm like, no, I don't wanna go down around that way. But they're pulling in. You're okay. Just, just give in.

[00:28:43] Jodi Duval: It's so beautiful. 

[00:28:44] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Yeah. Just do it once I think I'm have to go by a dog now. Just do once a week, you know, uh, you know, don't make it their usual. 'cause then they expect it so. And then when they're like, they look at you and they're like, wait, I can go this way. And then they get all excited and you just share that excitement.

[00:28:57] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So, 

[00:29:00] Jodi Duval: Aw, love it. 

[00:29:00] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Well, um, uh, a dog actually lifted me out of depression, right? Aside from, from hyper dosing vitamin D and using a vitamin D lamp. If you get a dog, you have to take the dog out during the winter. So no matter how many feet of snow you're getting, you gotta. Take the dog out. Even if you have a yard, they're not satisfied with the yard.

[00:29:22] Dr. Ted Achacoso: You have to go out. Or at least, you know, if you have some modicum of ascensions within music, I actually need to move. And you take the dog out. But you know, they're, they're wonderful, uh, uh, creatures. I'm sorry I'm not a cat person. Um, because, because, uh, cats have feral genes, you know. If they're, if, if you have a house scout trained in a house and then you lose it for about a month to three months, you know, uh, then they will turn wild again.

[00:29:51] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Would not recognize you anymore. How Unloyal mm-hmm. Other, but then again, that has something to do with ev their evolution. All right. Um, but, uh, you know. And, and, [00:30:00] uh, cats are usually love on their own terms. So I prefer dogs, right? Because it's more love on my own terms. But anyway, um, that, that, that's actually a useful one, you know, to, to have some non-human right.

[00:30:15] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Uh, where the, there is no actual symbolic, uh, uh, communication between the two of you, right? Other than just the closest proximity to each other and doing an activity. So. 

[00:30:28] Dr. Allen Bookatz: I, I suppose we could wrap that into the evolutionary module, right? With health optimization. 

[00:30:36] Boomer Anderson: I, I was gonna say, I'm gonna go adopt the dog from the Anti cruelty Society down the street, so I'll leave you guys to be, 

[00:30:44] Dr. Allen Bookatz: either, either, I mean, I don't know if it was us or them that, you know, were the smarter ones and I think they, they may have won out.

[00:30:51] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Um, so we, we talked about a, a lot of stuff today. Um, we talked about, you know, changing our scene. Um, it seems like nature and, you know, disrupting our typical rhythms is gonna be a really key theme. We talked about. There's some, you know, pharmacologic strategies, especially when we're undergoing significant physiologic stress.

[00:31:13] Dr. Allen Bookatz: It kind of makes sense that if we're gonna travel halfway across the world and disrupt our rhythms, why wouldn't we support our systems with pharmacology? That's gonna, that's gonna also match the level of stress and support that we might need. Um, we talked about movement with stretching. We talked about hormetic stressors with infrared sauna and exercise, right?

[00:31:32] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So we, we built it that baseline, baseline resilience. A lot of great themes here. Um. So does anyone, uh, you know, we're rounding that, that half hour mark. Does anyone have any other final thoughts or nuggets of wisdom? No, this was 

[00:31:47] Boomer Anderson: Dr. Boot Cast's first time hosting. Congratulations. It's a good flow. He got good segues.

[00:31:54] Boomer Anderson: Yeah, I was impressed. Excellent. Oh and 

[00:31:56] Dr. Allen Bookatz: w he, Hey, here he go. Oh, he's gonna make an appearance. Maybe not. He's out. He's like, I 

[00:32:02] Dr. Scott Sherr: will say that. Um, you mentioned kids. I think that little humans can be helpful too, right? Just a random hand in your face when you're doing a podcast can be a good way to change your state overall or stress you out depending on the situation.

[00:32:17] Jodi Duval: But I remember I 

[00:32:18] Dr. Scott Sherr: had, I had my youngest barge in once in the middle of a, like a bigger podcast in quotes, and it, I just, I kind of froze. He's like, daddy, I had a great day at school. I want to tell you all about it. And I was like, um. Um, I kind of lost my, my words, but, but overall, like, getting on the ground and especially when your kids are younger.

[00:32:39] Dr. Scott Sherr: Um, 2, 4, 6, 8. Who do we appreciate? Like lower in, in age? Yeah. Cheerleader. They, yeah, they, uh, they definitely don't have like any sense, especially when they're younger, when they don't have a sense of their own self per se, or their own ego. They don't really know their name and things like that. It's, it's really fun to just be in that world [00:33:00] with them because they have.

[00:33:01] Dr. Scott Sherr: Just a beautiful, almost like primordial self. Right. They just, they don't have any, it's everything's new. Everything's open, and it's really cool to, to see that and, and be a part of that too. 

[00:33:12] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Yeah. Stop 

[00:33:13] Dr. Scott Sherr: sucking their energy. So I, I think I wanna, I have plenty to give. Come on 

[00:33:19] Boomer Anderson: 1 1, 1 theme that you guys brought up was changing state, and I'm gonna try and make this segue and then you guys can close it all out.

[00:33:26] Boomer Anderson: So, changing state involves, uh, sometimes Jody mentioned nature hikes and these kind of things, right? Uh, one place that you, or electro compulsive 

[00:33:33] Dr. Ted Achacoso: therapy, you know? Yeah. Well, 

[00:33:36] Boomer Anderson: uh, I can assure you that. We will have plenty of nature on October 17th and 18th, but maybe not electroconvulsive therapy unless we come up with something in the meantime.

[00:33:45] Boomer Anderson: And 

[00:33:45] Dr. Ted Achacoso: also, you know, vitamin K as in Kenneth or Ketamine. I'm kidding. Yeah, maybe 

[00:33:51] Dr. Allen Bookatz: both. I thought you say come out to California change state. 

[00:33:54] Boomer Anderson: Well, I was saying October 17th and 18th in Chicago National Park, Boulder, Colorado. Plenty of nature there. Um, please join us at our symposium, but somebody dismount this one for us.

[00:34:07] Boomer Anderson: Don't really jump at once. I think it's Dr. Boot Kat's here. 

[00:34:11] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Dr. My friend Dismount. 

[00:34:13] Jodi Duval: What is off that? 

[00:34:14] Dr. Allen Bookatz: All right, well, every, any final words, final words, get out there. Follow your dog, follow your ki, follow your kids. Probably just don't follow someone else's kids. You'll get arrested for that. 

[00:34:25] Jodi Duval: Welcome. 

[00:34:28] Dr. Scott Sherr: Good.

[00:34:28] Dr. Scott Sherr: Good note. Good note. Well, well thank you everybody for joining us for their episode of the Smart and a Harder podcast where we give you 1 cent solutions to $64,000 questions. Dr. BUCAs, thank you for hosting Dr. Ted Boomer, Jody, thank you all for being here, and we'll catch you all next time. Bye-bye.

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