Grace Hawkins | Personalized Health & Hidden Root Causes

• Why do so many people feel dismissed or gaslit by the medical system even when they know something is wrong?
• How can integrating DNA testing, blood pathology, and hair tissue mineral analysis reveal patterns that symptoms alone can’t explain?
• Why is data-led personalization more effective than protocol-driven or one-size-fits-all care?
• How do heavy metals and mineral imbalances quietly disrupt energy, mood, and physical function?
• Why does true healing require time, education, and collaboration rather than quick fixes or fast medicine?

Who is Grace Hawkins?

Grace Hawkins is a naturopath and integrative health practitioner based in the Northern Rivers of New South Wales, Australia. Her path into natural medicine began with her own complex health journey, including severe endometriosis, migraines, and a near-fatal appendicitis that was repeatedly dismissed before emergency surgery. That experience ignited a lifelong curiosity about why symptoms develop, how the body communicates distress, and what truly supports lasting restoration rather than temporary symptom suppression.

Today, Grace is known for her deeply personalized, data-informed clinical model that integrates DNA analysis, comprehensive blood pathology, and hair tissue mineral analysis (HTMA). She views the body as a dynamic, living matrix — one that cannot be reduced to isolated lab values or one-size-fits-all protocols. By identifying mineral patterns, methylation tendencies, detox capacity, and biochemical imbalances, Grace helps clients understand the “why” behind their symptoms and supports them through structured, collaborative, long-term healing plans.

Grace works both independently and alongside general practitioners within an integrated medical clinic, building bridges between conventional and naturopathic care. She is particularly passionate about heavy metal detoxification, complex chronic cases, practitioner mentoring, and elevating the standard of personalized medicine within the natural health profession. Through education, collaboration, and clinical innovation, Grace is committed to helping both patients and practitioners think more expansively about what health can look like.

What did Grace and Jodi discuss?

00:00 Intro & Grace’s personal health crisis that changed everything
03:20 Being dismissed by doctors & the appendicitis turning point
06:10 From patient to practitioner: why she chose naturopathy
09:40 What does “personalized health” actually mean?
12:30 DNA testing: understanding your blueprint
16:00 Blood pathology: reading the 3-day snapshot
20:10 Hair Tissue Mineral Analysis (HTMA) explained
24:30 Heavy metals, detox capacity & hidden toxicity
29:00 Why mercury and lead can mimic chronic disease
34:10 Slow medicine: why real healing takes 6–12 months
38:20 Working alongside GPs & navigating Medicare limitations
42:30 Practitioner burnout & building better clinical models
46:40 Moving beyond protocol-driven naturopathy
50:30 The future of personalized, data-led health care
55:00 Rapid fire: minerals, testing & functional foods
58:30 Final thoughts & empowering patients long term

Full Transcript:

Grace Hawkins: [00:00:00] However, it did take me a few more years before I actually was like, I need to find out for myself. I think I didn't start studying naturopathy until I hit like my mid twenties. I was just fascinated by it and just really kind of gobbled it up and just loved that there was so many options and possibilities and ways to understand the body that I just never knew before.

Jodi Duval: Welcome Grace Hawkins to the show. I've been so excited to talk to you, met you at a conference recently. Um, and I just fell in love with your ways of, of treating clients and your philosophy, so I had to talk more. We'll probably be talking lots more in the future. Welcome. Um, so Grace, let's, let's tell everyone a little bit about you.

Jodi Duval: So what's your story, what's your spark that got you into this space [00:01:00] of naturopathy, integrative medicine? Let's start there today. 

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. It's so fun. A really, um, grateful to be here chatting with you today. And yeah, I think that's a really interesting question. I often have to come circle back around to it, but it was actually my own health journey that really got me to practicing and being where I am today.

Grace Hawkins: And, you know, growing up I really had no insight into preventative health. It was, you know, I grew up in the eighties and Yeah, what margin? Green and bread and, yeah. You know, it's all the things dietary wise that were just not, you know, we just had, didn't have that awareness, you know, as grew up in a rural, um, town in Western 

Jodi Duval: Bread.

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. And it was just like, okay, well that's just what you do. You know? However, I noticed that I was different. I have two sisters, one older and one younger. Mm-hmm. And they just seemed to thrive in ways that I didn't, and even our body types are completely [00:02:00] different. And I would have skin irritations or you know, when I got my menstrual cycle that were horrific.

Grace Hawkins: That was super painful. And you know, there was just no, there was just nothing I could do. It was just like, take some medication and just, this is just what it means to be a woman, you know? And I was thinking, well. Seem to be, not everyone else is experiencing this and my sisters aren't. And that kind of just progressed until I hit about 19.

Grace Hawkins: And then I ended up getting really sick. And I went to a few doctors and they just kept dismissing me. They said, um, I had, um, reflux and heartburn and you know, go home. There's nothing wrong with you. And I was living with my dad at the time and he just kept taking me back to the doctor the day after day going, look, my daughter's not eating.

Grace Hawkins: She's not talking. There's something wrong with her. Eventually they did a scan, you know, an ultrasound scan of all of my digested system, all my tummy, 'cause it was really isolated around my tummy. 

Jodi Duval: Oh. 

Grace Hawkins: And they sent me home again saying, oh, there's nothing wrong with you. And I think the following day I ended up, [00:03:00] um, dad called in an emergency doctor to the house in like the middle of the night.

Grace Hawkins: And long story short, I had severe appendicitis. I had to go and emergency surgery and yeah, it was right on the edge of just not making it. 'cause I were like, yeah, they kind of burst and I got really sick, so like a septicemia type thing. So I had to be on lots of antibiotics and you know, the whole thing was, I was just quite oblivious, like, how on earth did that happen?

Grace Hawkins: You know, because I had no real awareness about there was all these signs and symptoms leading up to it, but 

Jodi Duval: yeah, didn't know how 

Grace Hawkins: to understand them or read them and I was just completely dismissed continuously. I think for five visits or something, in five days in a row, I would just, nothing's wrong with you.

Grace Hawkins: Go home. 

Jodi Duval: Oh my goodness. It's not an uncommon story, is it? Which is the, the worst part. It's, it's not just a once off that these things happen, we hear. 

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. You know, since then I've heard, you know, hundreds if not more [00:04:00] jury like this. So, you know, my number one question, I've always been really like curious, a real secret.

Grace Hawkins: I just wanted to know why, why did this happen? How did this happen? And I just got nothing, you know, I was seeing the specialists and then surgeons and the doctors are like, oh, it just happens. You probably ate some nuts. They probably got stuck in your appendic duck and, and that know you don't need it anyway.

Grace Hawkins: It's not an important organ. Off, off go. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yeah. 

Grace Hawkins: Pinky. What? 

Jodi Duval: The body just accidentally grow something. It didn't need, 

Grace Hawkins: like, it just happens. I thought I just couldn't really handle that. I was like, oh, that doesn't really add up for me. Uh, however, it did take me a few more years before I actually was like, I need to find out for myself.

Grace Hawkins: I think I didn't start studying naturopathy into like. Like my mid twenties. 

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Grace Hawkins: Mm-hmm. Um, and then I just launched into it and I just couldn't believe how into it I was. Mm-hmm. I had done numerous different [00:05:00] things before that time and I was just fascinated by it and just really kind of gobbled it up and just loved that there was so many options and possibilities and ways to understand the body that I just never knew before.

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Grace Hawkins: So, um, yeah, that was really my entry point, I suppose, and just the. The lead up to that. You know, I had, you know, ter, it turned out I had endometriosis. That's why, you know, my periods were so horrible and painful. My sisters didn't experience that. And I used to get migraines and, you know, that were really severe.

Grace Hawkins: That would take me out for a few days that, you know, that you couldn't see. And you know, when I think about it, they're kind of so similar to like, almost like having a mini stroke. You know, one side of your face goes, flies and you, you know, it's really alarming stuff that I don't think is normal for or shouldn't be considered normal for a teenager to experience, you know?

Jodi Duval: No, absolutely not. 

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. 

Jodi Duval: And I think that, that the, the amazing part of this is that, and it shines through [00:06:00] everything that you do. And when I, when I initially talked to you, you had this spark that no other naturopath that I, that I, yeah, I speak to a lot and I, I used to lecture as well, and I, I go to a lot of symposiums and.

Jodi Duval: That's what really stuck with me. Like your, your passion, your drive, your curiosity and your hunger for this space. And I think as nutritionists as as, as, um, naturopaths, we feel like there is, it's a heavy load. 'cause I, I, I feel like we, we hold onto and we support people in ways that a system has failed at.

Jodi Duval: So therefore we get so many different complexities of cases and we have to figure that out. So it's quite a responsibility 'cause we feel that we have to support and help these people. Um, and so it takes a great, like you say, a great curiosity and a great drive to keep you in this space and to have the support network around you for that.

Jodi Duval: Um, and that's really what I, I wanna dive in with you today [00:07:00] about this complexity and what we, what we see in this space. Um, and it, you know that there's a lot out there on mentoring and supporting practitioners and. Um, you know, preventing burnout, but really it's, it's, it's really quite hard, especially when you practice on your own or within a very small, um, area.

Jodi Duval: And, you know, you practice in one of the most incredible parts of the world. I'm very jealous on the other side over there of Australia in the Byron area. That's like fall in love with that. My, my heart just yearns for that area, so I'm just gonna have to come and see you more often.

Jodi Duval: But, um, I know you have, you know, uh, your own practice as well as you work integratively, um, in a, in a surgery or in a doctor's surgery. And, um, so you, you are very similar to, to, to me in a way we're trying to bridge this gap of like, um, having the support of all these size. 'cause how wonderful would it be if GPS and, [00:08:00] and common practice would be, okay?

Jodi Duval: So I don't know what this is, or I can't help you because this is not acute care. Well, I have this amazing person and you know, many people are trying to do this, but I think there's just not this common, um, allowance or knowledge of who is the best practitioner for what. And so physios get referred to, um, you know, specialists obviously, but naturopaths just sort of like, or nutritionists just sort of stick out on the outside there somewhere.

Jodi Duval: We just wait for people to find us, be like, hello, we're over here. Come see us. But if, if we had this beautiful little, um, bridge or leeway into like, okay, go see the naturopath now they can be supporting you in this different way. You've done the, the acute care, and now we're, you know, you're at the safety level, let's go.

Jodi Duval: Um, or not and, and just, you know, it can start from scratch. So let's dive a little bit in, um. Tell me a little bit about what you love to work with and this is, I was having this conversation with you [00:09:00] just before we got on and it's really tricky for me to sort of, when I speak to, to people who are specialists or um.

Jodi Duval: In a particular field or about a product or, you know, it's great because we can dive deep into this, but naturopathy and I, I think this is where it's quite hard. And this is where, you know, I, I speak to my, um, to, to Shana about marketing this space. And it's really tricky 'cause it's like, well we do this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this all in one consult.

Jodi Duval: And we do counseling, we do, um, energetic, um, evaluation. We do, um, pathology evaluation. We do um, mineral evaluation, we do metabolite evaluation. We do like, it's just, and then we do foods and nutrition and we do lifestyle. We support body movement and we support fascia movement and we support hydration. So it is really hard for us to dive into all of that in one podcast.

Jodi Duval: So, 

Grace Hawkins: absolutely. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah, it's really huge. So [00:10:00] where I, I know you do a lot of DNA analysis and the combination, and I sort of like to call it from, from my perspective, that sort of like, um, broad spectrum clinical matrix of like bringing it all together. And I know you do a lot of work with HTMA, so we can go into that too.

Jodi Duval: And then obviously drawing together this specialization and individualization of blood pathology and matching all this together. So maybe we can, um, sort of like start, like what do you normally, how do you normally conduct, what do you normally see? Um, and then we can lead in from there. 

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. Beautiful.

Grace Hawkins: It's so true. Everything. I just wanna acknowledge everything that you just said because it's a really dynamic space that we work in and often people will go, what's your niche? You know, any type of marketing wants that question answered. And I honestly can say that my niche is personalizing people's health.

Grace Hawkins: Because a bit like a general practitioner, we don't get to just go, oh, I'm just, well, we can, and there are people that do amazing job at that of [00:11:00] nicheing the industry. And I really love that. Particularly if I get stuck on something and I need to refer. It's so great to have those people in niches, but I would have to say that my area is really in more that general, general practitioner range.

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. Well, I'm like, okay, I'm going to receive this person. And my intention is to personalize their health. Yeah. What is it that they need? And I look beyond not only the signs and symptoms, but into like, how can I empower this person to know what's happening to their body, understand why, and give them avenues to be able to support themselves out of it.

Grace Hawkins: And that can look really, really different from one, one person to the next, even though they might present with the same types of signs and symptoms. So for me, I decided that I needed to create a way to be able to present this information in a really personalized manner. So for me, data is really queen for that.

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. She, data is gonna tell me, Hey, like this is where you need to look. This is what's gonna be the most supportive thing. I, [00:12:00] I don't have to guess. I can also weave in my clinical experience and my intuitive capacity to navigate through that. But it's always in con in that team kind of, um, co collaboration space with the individual client because they navigate that too with their other intuitive senses and their lived experience.

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. 

Jodi Duval: So 

Grace Hawkins: together it's definitely that collaboration. And this is where my love for DNA really came in because I thought, well, imagine if I could see someone's blueprint. Yeah, imagine I could see what they came in with. I know, I understand. It is just that, it's just a blueprint. It doesn't gonna tell me any real time levels and it's not gonna tell me like, oh, okay, what they need in this moment, but it's gonna tell me where to look.

Grace Hawkins: Like, is this person really like, got a big achilles heel or a sensitive spot around blood sugar regulation? Okay, well I'm gonna go there first. Yeah. Is it their detox capacity that's really limited and that's adding to, or creating some of these issues that they're presenting with? You know, is it more like based [00:13:00] around, um, you know, like them, their nervous system or their immune system, or, you know, whatever it might be.

Grace Hawkins: But this is where DNA for me is absolutely amazing. So I'll often encourage my clients to consider that right from the get go. But. What I'll also say is that it's not important. I don't need it to help support my clients, 

Jodi Duval: but it's 

Grace Hawkins: gonna help me understand where they've come from. And if I can use an analogy here, I might use like a beautiful diamond head snake, right?

Grace Hawkins: So where's the body of the snake? You know, where have you been? What is your past? Like where and has your body taken you? Or what do you have the capacity for? What do we need to keep an eye out for? And then, so that would be my foundation. I look at it a bit like a triangle. That's why I said the diamond head, because I would see the DNA being on the bottom of that triangle.

Grace Hawkins: And then what I wanna do is I wanna understand from, okay, well what, if I'm going to look in these areas specifically, then I wanna review the blood tests on as one side of that triangle, um, heading upwards. And that's gonna give [00:14:00] me a three day snapshot of what's going on for them. So that's very much the here and now where I'm crosschecking that against the DNA and going, oh, great.

Grace Hawkins: Okay, well these are what I'm gathering, uh, where you're at right here and right now. But because that's only a three day snapshot, my other side of my triangle head putting upwards would be the DNA, uh, sorry, the head tissue mineral analysis, the HDR. Because you not getting like a three month insight.

Grace Hawkins: Okay, well here's your three day snapshot, here's your three month snapshot, and I can fill in all the gaps now with what their DNA's presenting you with and saying, it's more than likely that this area is doing really quite well because you're not really presenting and we've checked all of those markers.

Grace Hawkins: This area here is really showing up to be an area that might need more of your attention. Like what can that look like to you? So we are demystifying not just, okay, all of these things are wrong with you or you're presenting with and are a problem, but now you understand why. And other things that you can do that might be more food medicine [00:15:00] orientated, lifestyle orientated.

Grace Hawkins: And the person starts to line up. They go, oh my goodness. Okay, I get this. This makes sense to me. And they can track it through their life and they can start to notice. The signs and symptoms more like messengers, um, that are trying to communicate with them rather than that feeling of, oh my God, what's wrong with me?

Grace Hawkins: And I go to the doctor and they tell me I'm fine. There's nothing wrong with me. Like, go home. You know? It's like that's a really disempowerment because it's, it might be true in terms of like you mentioned before. Acute care and illness and disease, but they might be just on the outside of that really struggling and nowhere way close to their optimal health and wellbeing and feeling really gaslit, really like, hang on a minute, am I making this up?

Grace Hawkins: Is this just all in my head? Mm-hmm. And we can really then acknowledge that and say, no, actually, it's really real for you and we are here to support that. And the reason that your GP or doctors weren't able to do that is because they're focusing on illness and disease. And we get to celebrate now because you are not an illness and disease, which is really great.

Grace Hawkins: However, we also [00:16:00] acknowledge you're not quite where you wanna be. So let's work together to try and understand this and, and find ways through that really aligned to the person as well, which again, is really unique. Yeah, 

Jodi Duval: very unique. Yeah. Beautifully said. I think I, I love this, um, like model that you've created and it is so true for that because we need different timestamp time points and that blueprint really does provide that.

Jodi Duval: And I do like working with that combination very similarly. Um, and with that, that blood work and that, that continual tracking as well. Um, and I, I, I guess it's, it's this point is, you know, sometimes there's a bit, there's a blurry line between, um, naturopathic acute care and medical acute care too, because we do have a lot to offer in that acute.

Jodi Duval: I just probably, I just wanted to say that because a lot of clients, again, it's this disempowerment, you know, they go with say, a, um, chest infection. They need, sometimes they need antibiotics, sometimes they don't. Um, and, but what they don't know is that we also [00:17:00] have tools and medicines to help support recovery if monitored.

Jodi Duval: Well, you can actually make a better recovery in most cases or in some cases. So it is a bit of a blurry line for clients and for, for patients to know when to jump to different systems or different models. And so that's where, that, I feel right from the start that we said that is, that integration is just not well known or not well, um, spoken about.

Jodi Duval: Um. So the, yeah, the, the other thing I really love about that is this empowerment of clients, and this is why I hear so often and in my office as well, is that, oh, I just feel, I just feel I, I've, I've got hope again, thank you so much. Because now I understand, and it's that knowing why it has been happening, like you said, right from the start with your own health.

Jodi Duval: You just, you wanna sort of know an inkling of what happened or why it happened, or, and it just gives you that empowerment to know how to either stop [00:18:00] this later on happening again or impact your health in a more positive way by making changes. But that, that is what I feel we give so much, is that hope and that knowledge and that doctor as teacher, which is meant to be, you know, that that key philosophy that we have and, and all medical professionals should have.

Jodi Duval: So. I really love that grace. It's, it's just such a beautiful blend and that you are, the clarity that you have around and explaining that and how you treat clients. So I wanted to dive a little bit more into sort of each component of that. Um, what do you normally see, and this is a tricky part in my practice, so with pathology, um, how, you know, navigating that because I think what we see as a really good pathology run is a little bit different and how we, we like dive into that is a little bit different as well.

Jodi Duval: So maybe you can explain that what you see, what you see is, [00:19:00] is a good sort of panel to run or, um, you know, things that you have to have to be able to see information for clients. 

Grace Hawkins: Yeah, it's a really great question and I think it would really help to honor that. When I do work at the medical center, I have worked there for about eight or nine years now, and when I first started there, I worked in.

Grace Hawkins: Um, you know, five days a week and I was really integrated in the, in the clinic. And then I realized that that model. It was really burning me out. Yeah. And I couldn't sustain that. So I started to pull back and do less and less days at the medical center and then choreograph my days to be more sustainable to the way that I practice, which has been a huge blessing and a really beautiful, um, expansion.

Grace Hawkins: However, and staying at the medical center has been so important for me because I get to build these bridges and also communicate with the gps and the doctors and see what they are willing to do and how they're willing to treat and how they're willing to integrate with me so that I can start to chunk out how can I also support these gps and these doctors [00:20:00] back.

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. Because having that, that communication with the doctors and having that team or mentality, or I'm on your side and I'm here to help, but you are the primary number one care practitioner and I honor that, and that really their limitations come because Medicare is really auditing them. It's not because I don't want to help you.

Grace Hawkins: And it's not because that they don't necessarily believe in preventative health or that they don't even, it's that they don't believe in the testing that we often request as preventative health practitioners. But then they just, their hands are severely tied. Yeah. They're like Medicare's, like the a TO, um, you know, health well worse, a lot worse.

Grace Hawkins: If you go and spend the Medicare's money without it being absolutely life savingly necessary, then they will take your medical license off you. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Grace Hawkins: And we have to really educate our clients in knowing that when we wanna talk to them about getting blood pathology done, because if I'm spending any of my clients back to my medical, uh, center and their [00:21:00] doctors there, and I don't take that into consideration.

Grace Hawkins: My relationship with that medical center is over. They're all just gonna be like, this person is a nightmare. She keeps sending through these ginormous lists of things that aren't important that my client's not even presenting with. I can't. I can't serve these people. They're getting upset with me. They think that it's personal, that I don't wanna help them.

Grace Hawkins: Whereas, you know, their model is so limited by Medicare. So that's my number one thing that I consider when I'm working with my clients. And what I'll often ask them to do is bring me what you've already had done. 

Jodi Duval: Yes. 

Grace Hawkins: From your gp. Absolutely. Who is your gp? What have they already looked for? What are they monitoring with you?

Grace Hawkins: Let's look at that. Yeah. And then when we looked at that and we have a bit more data, and I can justify it, I'm gonna start to add my wishlist, my pathology wishlist. Mm-hmm. 

Jodi Duval: Based 

Grace Hawkins: on chunking out what else I'm seeing and what I might have been guided to from the DNA or the head tissue mineral analysis.[00:22:00] 

Grace Hawkins: And on top of that, I'll also use my non-Medicare pathology forms. So these are forms that allow me to and my clients to get any of the testing that I would love to see. Just standard blood testing, but they just need to pay for it. Mm-hmm. They themselves out of pocket, so Medicare doesn't cover it. If Medicare doesn't cover it, then nobody cares.

Grace Hawkins: Yeah, it's got, there's no weight on anyone. There's no weight on the doctors, there's no weight on the naturopaths. It's just a paid for test. And a lot of people don't realize you can do this. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Grace Hawkins: And a lot of the pathology centers accept my non-Medicare pathology forms and they'll love to get paid for doing the testing.

Grace Hawkins: 'cause they're a privatized business as well. And so I always let my clients know that if your GP cannot put through anything because they don't feel comfortable with it, don't worry. It's not personal. You have my non-Medicare pathology form. It's one of the best investments you'll ever do to pay for this test.

Grace Hawkins: So we get a baseline and that will really start to cultivate a really nice relationship with my gps, [00:23:00] anyone that I send my clients to. And that's, that's my number one conversation before I start to look at the panels. So even though I have my favorite panels, of course I wanna see like, you know, what's their OID doing?

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. What their, even men, I wanna see what their full iron studies are doing. Are they losing blood when they shouldn't be? You know, I wanna see what their blood sugar's doing. You know, the hba one Cs, I wanna see their B12 and their folate. Folate is so often right? It 

Jodi Duval: does, 

Grace Hawkins: it does. Huge player in methylation and biochemistry.

Grace Hawkins: Um, I'll also wanna see vitamin D, which used to be on Medicare. Now that's, it's not, um, it's hard to get that one tested. 

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Grace Hawkins: Um, obviously always LFTs and full blood counts. I like just like those as baselines. And I'll often get a full lipid panel as well, just to see what their cholesterol's doing.

Grace Hawkins: Really acknowledging that cholesterol's a little bit of a canary in the coal mine there with antioxidant protection and all right, what's happening in the [00:24:00] body? You know, it's gonna gimme huge clues. So even though that wouldn't be a standard GP panel, they're the, they're the ones that I wanna see.

Grace Hawkins: They're my baby mines. And then I have my ones that I'll say, these ones are really unlikely, your GP to put through. You'll have to, more than likely have to use my form. I am training some of my GPS on. Doing some of these testing though and justifying them on Medicare if they Yeah. How 

Jodi Duval: to, 

Grace Hawkins: yeah. Yeah. So some of them do get put through, so it's always worth asking and, and collaborating with your GP on it.

Grace Hawkins: But that will also include our whole blood histamine. Um mm-hmm. My cysteine reading and I really love getting a urinary iodine because, you know, over 50% of all women and children in Australia are iodine deficient. So I do feel like it's worthy to have that one on Medicare, but we help make those rules.

Jodi Duval: Absolutely. Absolutely. I feel homocysteine is becoming a little bit more common and common knowledge and for, for reasons of which is great. Um, gps are becoming more willing to do that, so I totally agree. [00:25:00] It is different in different places within Australia as well. Um, we had access to some of these forms here in Perth originally.

Jodi Duval: We have less access to them now to actually do this general. Yeah. The paid, so we have to go through companies to do that, which means that it's a little bit more of a. A runaround. But what I, what I will say from what you said, I think it's brilliant that, um, and, and I, I acknowledge the difficulty that it is with gps and I, we are in some way blessed within our field because we have so much freedom and, um, lack of control, which is that, you know, that that's the, a negative and a positive, um, part to look at it.

Jodi Duval: But we don't have that weight of someone looking over our shoulder constantly and, um, thinking that we're going to be attacked or, um, had our license taken off us for. Knowing and wanting to do something for clients so desperately, but having to hold back, um, as [00:26:00] desperately so that they're, they can still be doing what they love or got into.

Jodi Duval: So I, I, I think it's a, a big thing that we need to, um, re realize and recognize. Absolutely. Um, also from, from a perspective of, like you said, bringing in the old blood tests or bringing in previous tests, there's a lot for us to do in extrapolation and we have to have that. And sometimes we don't, we can't get results or we can't get data that we want.

Jodi Duval: So we have to really dive deep and look around the edges and in the spaces and sort of really pull together what we can, which is, um, you know, a really good thing. And I think for, for the purpose of like context around, um, your model, and I really like that is because the DNA and the HT MA, they're not actually too, too much money.

Jodi Duval: You know, it's not a huge amount to spend to get these base levels and to actually have a direction to go into for starting your health journey. Um, [00:27:00] or even, um, add into it along the way. So. Love that. Absolutely love that. Now let's dive into HTMA. 'cause this is something that many may, may be not confident in, but also many may not know in its entirety how it can be used and what it shows.

Jodi Duval: So we can dive into a little bit of that. 

Grace Hawkins: Yeah, absolutely. I bore hair, tissue mineral analysis. I think because of its simplicity in some ways and also its deep complexity in others. You know, we're looking at the periodic table. It's just this phenomenal inside into the matrix of the human body. You know, we are made up of minerals, we are made up of, you know, vitamins and like, we can't forget that.

Grace Hawkins: We do forget that. But it's, it's coming back to those simple foundations that make it really take the complexity out of a lot of the testing. You know? Well, if we check your baselines, what you need to [00:28:00] function to rebuild, repair, to heal and to thrive, and we have to look at minerals. Yeah, we have to see how are you getting them?

Grace Hawkins: Are you able to like absorb them, you know, has your body system had a hard time curating and re removing heavy metals from the system and that's blocking your ability to absorb these simple vital minerals from your food. Mm-hmm. And that's often the case by the way, which I was really surprised about before I started doing a tissue mineral analysis.

Grace Hawkins: And I don't necessarily think, because, you know, often it will be certain industries that will build or have more higher exposure to heavy metals, particularly like builders and carpenters and that kind of thing. Um, perhaps mechanics as well. 

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Grace Hawkins: But it's, um, also that sometimes some people just don't have a huge, um, genetical capacity to detox as well as they could.

Grace Hawkins: Sounds good. So they just might have a really small exposure day-to-day exposure and really have a hard time moving that out of their system. That was fascinating for me, you know, to learn over [00:29:00] the years that I've been doing this is like, okay, this is not just, um, I'm not profiling this person for their exposure for heavy metals.

Grace Hawkins: I'm curious to see how they're managing what they get exposed to, regardless of, you know, their, what they do for a living, for example. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. You can see so many clues, even, even with the blood work as well, can't you? It's sort of like you, we, we, I almost joke with my clients. I'm like, oh, interesting. You told me this, but I can see this.

Jodi Duval: I go, what can you see? 

Grace Hawkins: You're like, it's always like, you know, you can joke like, oh, I've just got my little, you know, mirror ball here, like I can see into your body.

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. And I love it. Yeah. 

Jodi Duval: With that obviously HT MA, you know, when we're taking the hair, like you said, it's sort of like that three month what's maybe slightly more snapshot of what's being exposed or how the body's been dealing with and at that tissue level, um, you know, what is being excreted faster?

Jodi Duval: What is [00:30:00] being held onto what is being overloaded? So, and, and it is a, it's a keen, um, way to interpret and analyze this according to the person in front of you. You know, you can't just look at a result. You have to know more information on top of that. So what are the fun things that you like to see or maybe, um, that's not commonly known and how you work with, uh, the HDMA.

Grace Hawkins: Yeah, well, it's become, you know, something that's so familiar to me now that I see patterns, you know, I see it like, it changes in my, my vision when I see a head tissue mineral analysis. Like obviously you'll see like graphs and they color coded, and I'll explain that into my clients. However, for me, it turns into like this matrix in my mind, and I see this, this patterning.

Grace Hawkins: So I'll see like, you know, how much are they pulling on their endocrine system glands, like their thyroid or their adrenals, and then I see this patterning or how it spreads out into like, oh, their nervous system function or how they [00:31:00] might be even giving their power away, which sounds really weird, but it's also really great indication of whether or not they're putting themselves first or whether or not they are having a difficulty with, like, having boundaries around, um, what they might do with work or in any area of their life.

Grace Hawkins: And then I start to see, um, yeah, like clues about how they might be eating and how they might be. Sleeping. And, um, you know, really for me, I'm, I've got this huge fascination with the patterning of minerals and how not only it can affect the physical bodies. So I can see endocrine system patternings, like we mentioned before, like thyroid function, adrenals, blood sugar regulation, that kind of thing.

Grace Hawkins: But how also there's an aspect to that. It's more metaphysical, like a, um, mental, emotional, uh, spiritual aspect, which is like what drives us to use that mineral patterning. Um, I find that absolutely fascinating and I've been looking into that for the last few years [00:32:00] and. Questioning my clients. Like, you know, sometimes, you know, if we're pulling on potassium it might be like a lack of feeling, our creative spark or, you know, not putting that, um, energy, feeling a little bit underwhelmed or undernourished with our creativity that like, does that resonate with you?

Grace Hawkins: And that the jaws just drop. It's just phenomenal how it's this patterning. It's like that it's a really, a big deal for them at that period of their life and that that suppression or lack of being able to put energy towards that is actually draining. Particular minerals, like they're literally draining their life force.

Grace Hawkins: You know, they're not being fed and they're not being able to regulate and balance the rest of their body. So seemingly unrelated things are presenting that could be adjusted or that mineral pattern usage could be adjusted if they were to really kind of consider those things, which we don't always get an opportunity to talk about with all of our clients.

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Grace Hawkins: Um, so I find that a really lovely aspect because again, that's a real [00:33:00] empowerment piece. Exactly. Like someone can reprioritize things and have a better quality of life because of it and do what they might really want to do and might, might really light them up and it really worked for them, like is logically as well.

Grace Hawkins: And I think that's beautiful. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. And it's a, it's an opening of a, a door scenario too, isn't it? Sort of like an insight slightly and sort of you open that door and say, well. Look at this, this is a talking point now for us to be discovering together and for you to be making changes on in your lifestyle.

Jodi Duval: And look how much this will actually be impacting your actual physiology, like you say. Um, and the, the, it's interesting to note as well, you know, I think the, the common, uh, narrow thinking around biology or um, biochemistry is that you know, more of something or you see something low, you add more of it.

Jodi Duval: Or you see something high, you need to reduce it. It's not, it's not that clear and simple within the [00:34:00] biochemistry, because there is transport ions, there is mechanisms, there's enzymes, there's, there's, you know, excesses and there's blockages and there's cell membranes, and there's, there's all of these things that we need to be considered when you're talking about all of this with the H-H-T-M-A.

Jodi Duval: So it really does take a very keen eye, 

Grace Hawkins: isn't it? Absolutely. Yeah. Fascinating. Yeah, it's so, it's very dynamic. You know, it's certainly not like the chart suggests it's not just a bunch of numbers or charts on a page, you know, it's this literal holographic moving, um, matrix. And I like to consider, I once read that the.

Grace Hawkins: The periodic table. We used to think it was, you know, we'd see it as flat, whereas actually, um, it's believed to be circular and, and even more research added to that is it's actually like spiral. It's like a DNA strand, you know, it moves, it's a moving, um, matrix of minerals within our system that work at, like the DNA [00:35:00] spirals.

Grace Hawkins: And so it's really dynamic. You can't just, you know, take those and, and adjust them like dials. It's a living matrix that all needs to be working together. So that's also a really beautiful concept as well. And mm-hmm. Of course we might get top heavy or deficient in some areas, and it's not just about, okay, just take some work.

Grace Hawkins: This, like you said before, it's a really intricate. Dance that we weave together and you need all of those other moving parts. Like I wouldn't be able to treat HTMA results effectively without knowing someone's biochemistry, which I need to get from the bloods. Mm-hmm. And without seeing their methylation tendencies, that I'll, I'll see from the DNA.

Grace Hawkins: Mm-hmm. So even that's a living organism, that's a moving matrix that I'm working with as well. And um, you know, that doesn't stand still. You know, we change and evolve and, you know, I once saw this amazing, I think it was, um, TED talk or something about, uh, the most successful industry in the world is, um.[00:36:00] 

Grace Hawkins: The only industry that get people to work for it for free and pay them for it, which is the gaming industry. And gaming industry has all these people working really hard at their product and they're paying them to do that. And the way they get them to do it is like we mark their progress. We say, Hey, you get to the next level.

Grace Hawkins: Oh yeah, you win these coins. Oh, you get this next thing. Yeah. And we really need to remember that as practitioners and also, you know, um, being a, a client or a patient ourselves, you know, we have to be able to know, oh, we're getting some there, or let's review that, or let's see the change and let's do the review the blood or the head to sh analysis, which you can, but you can't, obviously with the DNA NA.

Grace Hawkins: But, um, this is also really important because it's just, you know, part of that. DNA expansion where we can release new DNA when we are remembering our own empowerment. Yeah. We are like, oh wow. And we, and something builds in us, like something intangible, like the life force [00:37:00] increases as well. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah, absolutely.

Jodi Duval: I think that's a really good point as well, because I think the measurement or the the, um, the way that we see things, we're not always aware of what we are looking for to see progress in our own bodies. We're not taught to actually feel what health or, um, vitality is or life force is. So once, and I think that's the gift of working so closely with someone in this space is, um, allowing them to be learning this step by step.

Jodi Duval: And so they're measuring their own progress. And it's like personal bests all the time. You know, PB is constantly going, oh yes, I got that and I got this. And then just that recontextualization of of, of showing them like, it's not always gonna be a a up, up, up. It's, it's, you know, up and down. But you are up, up, up.

Jodi Duval: Like you, you're better than you were last year. Way better, but you've had a few little bumps in the road. Um, and so that's the, that's the, um, the, the gift I guess, of working so closely with someone and knowing them [00:38:00] so intimately at that individualized level, but then also seeing all that data points so you can work with what.

Jodi Duval: Works for them to see the progress. You know, some people work really well with seen data. Some people work really well with feeling it in their body or having a, a, a data point on their, on their measurements or wearables or, you know, it, it can be different for every single person. And that's what you get to and come to learn with is working like this with people.

Jodi Duval: Um, and yeah, that, that's for, for me personally, that's what makes me, um, do my job every day. That's what Wake makes me wake up and see the passion in their eyes and making them learn and, and, and, and giving them education around their own bodies. And it's like, well, my job's done at the end of the day if I've done at at least some of that, which is, yeah, it's very rewarding.

Jodi Duval: Absolutely. 

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. 

Jodi Duval: Um, so, uh, I don't, yeah, we, I've got so much to, to unpack always from everything that we talk about, but I really love that you said about this moving matrix. I've not heard it put that way. I just, [00:39:00] I, I absolutely. Love that there's this living system and, and this sort of, um, Danielle and my practitioners here, she, she coined the, the term like stretchy thinking.

Jodi Duval: And so we aren't taught this way in schools, our education systems, our even medical training. It's, we, we don't get taught this systems living, moving, um, aspect. And then sort of, because it is so complex that we shy away from complexity because we can't analyze it and we can't see it in totality.

Jodi Duval: Therefore, we don't wanna know about it in most, in most cases. And so, yes, scientists will, you know, dive in and researchers, and we'll look at it and we'll look at it in intricate details, but we always have to have that, that wide spectrum, like pull back and let's see what, how it entails or how it integrates into the rest of this moving matrix of this, this DNA spiral.

Jodi Duval: You know, as, as you explained, every part of what we do is that moving spiral and it's just so incredible. But, and that I [00:40:00] feel is, is, is the, um, biggest part missed is that we, we inter, we, we narrow down too far, we become too micro in our thinking and we've become too micro in our analysis and we miss so many of the, the beautiful insights that are on the outside of that, or we, we've just gone straight past it, so.

Jodi Duval: Alright. So, you know, I guess we're, we're going to run, run out time and I wanna sort of like dive down into a few other things. How, what, what are some like maybe, um, key cases or inspirational stories maybe that you can think of, um, when it comes to some of these changes that you've seen with your clients or even integrating with other models, um, or other, you know, systems or other practitioner, anything that might be a, a sort of like a notable thing that comes to mind that really, um, empowered you or gave you a lot of passion?

Grace Hawkins: Oh gosh, there's so many there would. Yeah, I know. It feels like great to [00:41:00] be able to say that as well. Yeah. You know, one of the doctors that I work really closely with, he's o one of my biggest fans. He refers so many people to me, which I absolutely adore Dr. Mario alum. And he often shares that he doesn't have any clients with chronic health issues, and he really attributes that to the integration that we have together.

Grace Hawkins: And also his other, you know, integrative networks that he encourages his clients to see. You know, he's very big on, um, you know, a wide spectrum of support for the client, which I love and adore as well. I think it's very practical and very essential for GPS to have that kind of. Support network around them as practitioners as well?

Grace Hawkins: Absolutely. Because they don't get to do that acute primary care. So he's just always, you know, reminding me of those beautiful stories. And we have many, many at our clinic together. Um, some of the really rewarding ones for me are the heavy metals, to be honest, because they are so life changing. You know, I've had [00:42:00] clients come in, um, one of my clients, um, he came in, he was in his, uh, sixties.

Grace Hawkins: He was one of the healthiest people that I could absolutely like, say wholeheartedly on paper. You know, there's just, his lifestyle was so squeaky clean. Mm-hmm. And um, and he was just riddled with what was called gout. Yeah. And he just couldn't move. And he was bedridden and he was just completely such an upbeat, beautiful person and completely defeated and depressed and go, there's just no way I can have gout.

Grace Hawkins: How can I have gout? I just don't ha, I don't have this lifestyle. And you know, I didn't have the physique either. And I was like, yeah, it seems really strange and your bloods are definitely saying that you are not detoxing, so let's look into it. 

Jodi Duval: And you 

Grace Hawkins: get the heavy metals back, the hair, tissue, mineral analysis and his mercury is like five times off the chart, you know, so he just absolutely insanely heavy metal loaded.

Grace Hawkins: And mercury is probably one of the worst. I mean, I [00:43:00] do find lead being absolutely a huge challenge for people as well, obviously. Yeah. Mercury's really, really, really bad. Yeah. You know, seeing him go through a process. I use really high tech, um, technology, like a supplement therapy and nutrient therapy to help chelate heavy metals.

Grace Hawkins: I'm very, very careful with it, and we do it in a very calculated and, um, personalized way depending on where someone's at. And so, over a period of probably six months, I took him through several, um, very intricate detox protocols and he came back in, not quite crying, but like walking, uh, you know, at the end of that six months and just absolutely free.

Grace Hawkins: He did not have gout. He could get out of bed. He was mowing the lawns. Again, he was alive and, and his life changed. You know, it was like very moving for both of us to see that kind of a shift, because he was heading towards a very [00:44:00] miserable second half of his life, you know, where he was really relatively, quite young still, I, I consider 60 still to be quite young, particularly if you're in good health.

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. And so that was, that was really heartwarming. I mean, I've, I have many builders and carpenters that come in with lead deep, um, poisoning. I would have to call it poisoning. 'cause it's just like when it's five times off the chart, it's like, so it's impacting them so severely that they can't function, you know?

Grace Hawkins: And in a way that they can't run around with their kids. They can't sleep, they can't move, they're sore, they're heavy, they're tired, they can't think straight, they don't have any quality of life. So these are huge change arounds, like these, these are slow medicine. I don't see these shifts happen quickly with heavy metals, but over a period of six to 12 months, there is like life changing, you know, on outcomes, which for me is, you know, it's keeping them with it.

Grace Hawkins: It's like, you're doing great, you hang in there, this isn't gonna happen overnight. So 12, [00:45:00] six to 12 months is a long time. 

Jodi Duval: It is have 

Grace Hawkins: those kind of outcomes when someone's working hard and they're investing a lot of money. But those kind of outcomes are just phenomenal for me. I just, I just, I can hardly believe them each time.

Grace Hawkins: I'm like, it's just like a miracle. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yeah. And it's just, it's like, it's in sim in simplicity terms, it's just unloading the bucket so the body can just do its job. It can really then just work and function back into normality and yeah. Mercury, as you say, that's a, it's a horrible one. And, and lead. Is a really tricky one to get rid of as well, you know, or to help support the body to collate that.

Jodi Duval: Um, but yeah, like you say, it's a six to 12 months and with, with most of the stuff, I think we do like that even more so, because you have to be so dedicated to that and the amount of, you know, supplementation and medicines that you are actually doing such an intricate level and sort of organizing all that.

Jodi Duval: But in general, that sort of 12 months transition is quite true for many [00:46:00] people when they're working through something quite, um, hard for the, from their health perspective. And that's where it is that contact, like you say, it's that motivation. It's like you're doing really well. Like look how far you've gotten.

Jodi Duval: It's like the information, it's like this is why it's taking so long. This is what's happening in your body. This is the reasons why you have to take this long. And and so once they understand all that, it's actually so much easier to commit to that time period. And it's relatively short in comparative to a sort of 60 life already 60 years of life.

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Grace Hawkins: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's no comparison, is there, you know, it is like, okay, well it's, we're happily take on, you know, studying something for a three or four year period, or we'll gestate a baby for like nine to 10 months, or we'll, you know, we'll save up for a mortgage for a year or two and yet to, you know, when we're in it, when we're in the driving seat of it day to day, and we're making that huge investment of our time and our money on a really personalized level like that, that can be really [00:47:00] hard to stay with.

Grace Hawkins: So I do acknowledge the challenges around that, and it's really something that needs support and education and it needs some. Kind of common knowledge around it because, you know, a big pharma has really turned it into like, if it doesn't work within 12 to 24 hours, it's not working. You know, our concepts, which you know, is true for acute health and illness and disease, and I don't take away from that.

Grace Hawkins: However, to have, you know, optimal health and function and wellbeing. You know, this is slow medicine. You know, our blood works in blood cycles. You know, three to four months is like, well that, that's how long it takes to heal a broken bone. You know, we have to bring it back to, you know, those baseline concepts that are often missed in this such fast paced world.

Grace Hawkins: Or we want everything immediately. We want it now and we want it to, to see like direct, you know, outcomes for our investment. It's like, okay, now this is like investing in shares. This is a long game. 

Jodi Duval: Yes, absolutely. And that is what is missed, I feel, [00:48:00] and that's what that sets up. That expectation is. That you have to, or you are expected to feel something.

Jodi Duval: You know, I'll get clients who haven't fully understand, understood the process, and they'll come or email me two days later. It's like, I don't feel anything. Why don't, why don't I feel better? I'm like, ah, well, um, you've got chronic fatigue and it's been there for four years and, um, two days. Really not gonna do it.

Jodi Duval: Uh, I laugh, but yeah, you can have these laughs with clients too, because you Yeah, it is, it's lighthearted. It can be, um, a journey, uh, that you make together, which is beautiful. Um, so it is nice to see them go through transformations and perception shifts, and that's what I call it myself, is that they'll have this mentality, um, perception shift.

Jodi Duval: And it's something that's quite remarkable actually, because you see a lot of the healing struggles and sometimes they get to a point where they're like, really, like committed, but things aren't still shifting. And it's just like, and for me, I'm like, why? What's going [00:49:00] on? And then you dive deeper into the emotionality, the.

Jodi Duval: The energetics and the, the stuck points, and I'll integrate with other referrals like kinesiology and even reiki. And so it's just working with that different system. We do s you know, it sounds really woowoo, but we, we can integrate these different models. You've got the, the hard core science by chemistry, and then you've got over here like energetics that are shifting, you know, fluffy bits through the body and suddenly they realize and they come up to this like, oh, I get it.

Jodi Duval: That's what's holding me back. I've had these old models that I believe in or these old systems that I've got, and that shift just can be, that can elevate them into a, a month's healing that would've taken them six months. And so yeah, it's these incredible things that just, um, really like blow, blow you away, like you say.

Jodi Duval: And it's just, um. It's so heartwarming how, how we can make these massive changes with people and they obviously have [00:50:00] to be committed to it as well, so, 

Grace Hawkins: oh, without a doubt. Yeah. When we can't do anything without the, the clients can we, you know, like they're, it's, we are really just holding their hands and guiding them, you know, they do all the work at the end of the day, and that's something I really like to remind them as well.

Grace Hawkins: It's like, you are the one that's gonna heal yourself. I'm just here to help point you in different directions and, and support you along this journey. You know, it's, 

Jodi Duval: yeah. 

Grace Hawkins: The human body is just phenomenal and we've gotta remember that, you know, everything that we need is inside of us. 

Jodi Duval: Yes. 

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. It's like we, and we get sold.

Grace Hawkins: It's all on the outside of us, and Yeah, sometimes it is because we need like, guidance and, and support to get back in there to recharge it, you know, and 

Jodi Duval: yeah. 

Grace Hawkins: Reorientate within the system, so. 

Jodi Duval: Absolutely. Absolutely. So for the, for the future of this personalized health, what excites you the most? Grace at the moment?

Jodi Duval: Is there anything that you ha look forward to, um, to learning or to [00:51:00] seeing or, um, you know, sometimes it can just be, uh, you know, I like to reiterate like that consistency in that just growing and building, um, uh, naturopathic and nutrition environment is really good. But sometimes we look forward to something that might be an a, you know, come in or technology or discovery or testing.

Jodi Duval: So I always like to ask this question. 

Grace Hawkins: Oh yeah, I love it. You know, I think one day I would love to see, uh, almost like an all-in one kind of testing where there's genetics is being tested with real time bloods, with maybe a hair tissue, and you can. All of this in like one amazing kind of report. I mean, maybe that would be too much.

Grace Hawkins: I'm not quite sure. But, um, I really need to break it down for my own men mental space as well as my clients. So maybe that would be, I'd be, gotta be careful what I wish for there. But, um, I mean I would, I would really, and I have an intention of really, you know, sharing this knowledge in more of an educational way that is [00:52:00] available not only for my one-on-one clients that wanna take the journey, but more education, more mentoring other practitioners to help, um, move away from this almost medical system model within our naturopathic or n medicine industry where they're just following protocols like that are based on supplement company design.

Grace Hawkins: Yeah. That's not something that I think is very holistic or actually ever gonna really serve people in the way that I think that. I, I believe most practitioners want to, you know? Yeah. It's like you have to think outside the square. You have to look at the body for what it is. And we have that opportunity, that gift as practitioners in this realm to do that.

Grace Hawkins: You know, we have the time and the space. We just need to be able to almost create the models that it is, new models, you know, and I'm really, um, really passionate about being part of that in any way, shape or form that I can, that might be supportive to that kind of level of expansion and recreation of, [00:53:00] you know, how we look at health and wellness and, and optimizing without it being.

Grace Hawkins: Something that we have to go too far into, like a biohacking even zone with. It's like, sure, if you wanna optimize and do the biohacking, which is amazing, but you have a, a really centered balance to homeostasis of health that you, um, have a right to, and that requires this living matrix. And this requires all these moving parts and to really see that as, um, normalized and a and a central place where people go to have health, their, their health, um, maybe starting point or center point, and where they can branch out there from there whenever needed.

Grace Hawkins: I'd like to see that being more, um, you know, commonplace in my lifetime. 

Jodi Duval: Mm, I love beautiful. A hundred percent agree. All of that. Second, second, second, second. All that. It's, yeah. My passion to get into this and to the lecture and to [00:54:00] work with home Hope and, um, you know, within America and Europe and, and helping practitioners, helping doctors, helping students here.

Jodi Duval: I have mentors. I mentor a lot in clinic as well. It's all to that purpose of the integrity of our indu industry. 'cause I get so frustrated with it. Daily. Daily. We have these conversations and there's just not this matrix based thinking anymore because of the way that we're educated still. And it's just, it's, it's really quite, I, I find it disheartening and sad because we've tried so desperately to come away from that intricate medical model.

Jodi Duval: But we unfortunately have landed straight back in it without maybe even realizing it. And it's really sad because like, how do we think for ourselves? Because every single person who presents in front of us, we have to think in a completely different way for that person. We cannot base that off any protocol.

Jodi Duval: We have to distinct from the beginning. And that's where I rarely look at notes before I see a client. I just see them as [00:55:00] they are. And then that's what I do and that's how I go. I do intuitive, I do mental based thinking. And so we are not, you can't really, you can't really teach that, but there's no one that is explaining that to be the way that we work.

Jodi Duval: We have to be precise and clinical even in student practice. So yeah, I, I, I, I really, and this is why I, I did, did a little bit more work and I've studied the Home Hope model and, and just sort like have that integration and do all the other testing and, and, and have a look at different ways that you can work.

Jodi Duval: Like you say as well, like biohacking is a really good shiny object to aim for and get you into this space, but it's not the foundations. You can't do any of that and none of that works without those beautiful foundations and that moving matrix. So yeah. Um, I, yeah, from, from you to saying that, I think there's still a lot of work to be done and, and it's exciting, definitely hard work.

Jodi Duval: Yes. Um, but I think it's worth the fight and it's worth [00:56:00] the push to make sure that this happens for our industry. 'cause it's, it, again, it is so much beauty within it as well. There's so much that we've got to offer for so many people and, and there's incredible practitioners out there, absolutely incredible practitioners.

Jodi Duval: So we are very lucky at the same time, you know, in all that sadness, there's also huge amounts of joy and luck, so. 

Grace Hawkins: Absolutely. And you know, like just, it's like building on the shoulders of giants, isn't it? You know, like we need that clinic kind of clinical, like mental learning and training and almost like, okay, well that helps us to get to the place where we can, you know, do no harm.

Grace Hawkins: You know, which is our ethos, you know, we need that there. And I love that. And I love that our industry has really stepped up into, you know, a lot more of the, um, this kind of level of training and, um, requirements around, um, you know, our studies being a bachelor's of health science and where, you know, all evidence-based practice.

Grace Hawkins: And this is like a really essential move for our industry. [00:57:00] And then to use the gift of our industry to enhance that even further. Our capacity to be able to see through and around and create, you know, new models and new ways of healing that really honor the human, um, capacity to heal and drive and expand and grow is our role within that medical model.

Grace Hawkins: You know, it's to expand it, you know, and I think seeing it from that perspective is really like what motivates me and drives me because, you know, it's, we're sort of like halfway there and we've got all these like amazing space to go and we need each other as practitioners as well to really keep raising the bar, raising each other.

Grace Hawkins: Come on, let's go. We know how to do this. We just have to create new models, which is the unknown. You know, that unknown is scary. It's a lot of work. There's nothing to follow. You know, we have to navigate it. We sometimes we might get it wrong, we start again, or we keep, you know, we just have to keep going.

Grace Hawkins: And then this is where all great things come from, is that, [00:58:00] um, you know, trial and error and remembering, yeah, sometimes it's not gonna work, or something like that. And that's okay. If that's okay, let's go. Yeah. It's so lovely to have like these beautiful spaces to, you know, chat and, and hold, you know, talk about these amazing things as well because, you know, it really creates that community, which I think we all need.

Grace Hawkins: You know, we're, we all work in often in that sort of silo space and 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yeah. 

Grace Hawkins: I don't think we're gonna build what we, what we want and what we envisage it without each other, like all, you know, coming together. So, yeah. I love what you do, and thank you for creating spaces like this. 

Jodi Duval: I know. Well, thank, thank you.

Jodi Duval: And I, I think it's, um, I second all that again, is that I think that it's coming together. It's a lonely space for most practitioners. Um, and it can be quite isolating and it can be quite scary. So I think, yeah, more of that. And COVID hasn't helped, and so it's coming back into it now and, and we're all starting to join up again and, and meet from all over the world.

Jodi Duval: So it's good. [00:59:00] It's good. I think there's more to come. Um, so I wanna do a quick rapid fire with you and, and I like to do this as well, and then I want you to tell where everyone, where they can find you. Um, but all right. So what's your go-to mineral when stress hits? 

Grace Hawkins: Oh. It used to be magnesium like handstand and it 

Jodi Duval: always will 

Grace Hawkins: be.

Grace Hawkins: Um, yeah. However, like, you know, and I wouldn't ever do this unless I did see a HT MA, but potassium is just so gold as well. You know, they're both neuromuscular coordinators, aren't they? So, I mean, I, I wonder how much they operate well without the other, but, um, yeah, I really like to base if I'm, if I don't have to time to look at anyone's results or data, I'm gonna say magnesium.

Jodi Duval: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Cool, cool. It was a loaded question and you did very well. All right, so what's one test panel you'd like to take to a desert island? One test panel. 

Grace Hawkins: Whoa.[01:00:00] 

Grace Hawkins: Island. Geez. Gosh. 

Jodi Duval: I know. I wasn't looking at these two and I was like, I don't know how to answer these myself. So, good luck, grace. 

Grace Hawkins: I love it. One test cattle. Uh, I mean, sometimes I think like the DNA is such my guiding light because I go, oh, well I, you know, if I know what foods this contains and, you know, like, what orientates my, my body into its wellness and I was on a desert island, I mean, I could just like really tune into that DNA then, you know, use it to guide me into what I might need to eat or find there.

Grace Hawkins: I, I just think that DNA has got such huge heart, heart and capacity i'd. Yeah. I think that that would be the, probably the most useful for in terms of if I was on a desert island. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Okay. There we go. Um, all right, the next one is the book on your shelf you always return to? [01:01:00] It could be fiction, it could be, it could be anything.

Jodi Duval: It could be just knowledge. Oh gosh. I, I'm such a seeker. 

Grace Hawkins: I mean, at the moment, I absolutely adore the Jean Keys. I am in and out of that book. And, you know, because it's such a guiding light for me day to day and week to week and seeing, you know, helping me understand the collective energy of, of things and, and to really understand that most of us will operate from our shadows or, you know, that kind of victim part of ourselves, and that we all need encouragement towards, walk towards our gifts, you know, and, and that reminds me of the goodness of humanity.

Grace Hawkins: And so I'm often like tapping into that, not only personally, but for, you know, everybody that I'm working with, just to help me remember where I'm heading. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah, yeah. No beautiful answer. I think that's, um, 100%. I love that. And so the final one is functional foods You swear by, and it can be [01:02:00] one or two, it can be maybe a couple more.

Grace Hawkins: Oh, oh, wow. 

Jodi Duval: So many. I know, I know, I know. There's so many yummy ones. And it's like, what season are we in? That's that's 

Grace Hawkins: true. Totally. What season? What is like it So depends on main focus. I mean, I love everyone's tummy to work beautifully. I think, you know, beautiful like prebiotics and, and beautiful, like vibrant foods.

Grace Hawkins: Like, you know, Lynn seeds, fat seeds, they're just such a gold, aren't they? They're so yummy for so many people. Or a cheer seeds. I, I love, um. Oh my goodness. I feel like I, I can't do the, the food ness. I just try to choose, I think you've answered 

Jodi Duval: it. Like I think the fiber is, the flax seeds are, 

Grace Hawkins: yeah. Keep probiotic foods, like just keep your tummy good and you're on a good track, you know?

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yeah. I'll, I, my, my ones that would come up for me is like raspberries and blueberries. Yeah, totally. Just [01:03:00] because I, I will go through punts of them and they're just like life givers for me. So that's how Yeah. I, when they're in season, I, I'm the bear, I'm the bear. I'm like a bear. 

Grace Hawkins: I, I have berries all year round.

Grace Hawkins: I didn't even keep my free, the blueberries are my absolute favorite, so I, I'd put them on there too. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. All right, grant, so tell everyone where to find you. Um, obviously we've, we've alluded to the fact of where in the world you are, but um, yeah. So tell everyone sort of like links and all that sort of stuff.

Grace Hawkins: Sure. Okay. Well, my website is called Health with Gray. My Instagram and Facebook page are also obviously that too. So, uh, mainly I work, I work mainly online, um, with my business. I also work, have a clinic in Bangalore, which is in, uh, new South Wales, Northern Rivers, and in Mullum Biby at the medical center that I work at there, which is called the Comprehensive, oh, sorry, Mullen Comprehensive Health Center.

Grace Hawkins: [01:04:00] Um, and yeah, I, yeah, I mainly, I love all of my clinics will work online because I think, you know, I don't wanna limit it to somebody that, you know, has kids at home or needs a quick lunch break, check in, or lives on the other side of the world that, you know, one of my clients from here that's decided to travel or my, you know, friends and family in wa.

Grace Hawkins: So, um, yeah, I found that that was one of the blessings of COVID for me. Um, so yeah, it's. But in person, so not lovely as well. So I do like to keep my, a couple of spots open to that too. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah, no, absolutely. I agree with all that. Incredible. Well, thank you so much. I wish we had more time, but we might have to do a second round.

Jodi Duval: So thank you again for your time today. Grace 

Grace Hawkins: Katie. 

Jodi Duval: Thank you. It's been so lovely to chat with you. Yeah, have a lovely rest of your day. You too.

Find more from Grace Hawkins:

Website: https://healthwithgrace.com.au/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/healthwithgrace_/

LinkedIn: https://au.linkedin.com/in/grace-hawkins-a2260b69

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/healthwithgrace/

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