Dr. Amanda Wiggins | The New Rules for Aging Better, Smarter, and Sharper

• Why is brain health declining globally, and what role do vascular health and capillary function play in dementia, cognitive decline, and neurological disease?
• How can lifestyle factors like education, movement, hearing, social connection, and sleep reduce dementia risk by up to 45%, according to the latest Lancet Commission research?
• What is cyclic glycine proline (CGP), how does it regulate IGF-1 activity, and why is this pathway critical for brain repair, blood flow, and neurological resilience?
• Why are conditions like diabetes, neuropathy, stroke, and dementia increasingly linked through microvascular dysfunction rather than isolated organ failure?
• How can simple, free, daily habits — movement, diet, social engagement, and brain stimulation — protect long-term brain health more powerfully than complex interventions?

Who is Dr. Amanda Wiggins?

Dr. Amanda Wiggins is a neuroscientist, biotech executive, and CEO of The CGP Lab, with a career spanning academic research, translational science, and health innovation. She began her training in neuroscience straight out of high school, completing an undergraduate honors degree in New Zealand, a PhD at the University of Melbourne, and postdoctoral research in neurobiology at the University of California, San Francisco. Early in her career, Amanda developed a deep understanding of brain structure, repair, and function — alongside a growing desire to move science out of the lab and into real-world impact.

After leaving academia, Dr. Wiggins spent more than a decade helping early-stage biotech companies commercialize scientific discoveries, navigating regulation, clinical research, and product development. Her work has focused on translating complex neuroscience into practical, evidence-based solutions that can improve human health at scale. She joined The CGP Lab after being drawn to the depth of research behind cyclic glycine-proline (CGP) and its role in regulating IGF-1 activity, vascular health, and brain repair — an area she believes holds enormous promise for aging, dementia prevention, and neurological resilience.

Dr. Wiggins’ work is also deeply personal. Having lost family members to Alzheimer’s disease and vascular dementia, she is passionate about education, prevention, and empowering people with simple, science-backed lifestyle strategies to protect long-term brain health. Today, she is a leading voice on the intersection of neuroscience, vascular health, and lifestyle medicine, advocating for accessible, proactive approaches that support cognitive clarity, independence, and quality of life across the lifespan.

What did Dr. Amanda and Jodi discuss?

00:00 Intro & why brain health is a growing global concern
02:20 Dr. Amanda Wiggins’ neuroscience background & personal motivation
05:00 Dementia, Alzheimer’s, and the missing prevention conversation
07:45 What is CGP and how blackcurrants sparked the research
11:10 CGP, IGF-1, and the brain repair pathway explained
15:00 Vascular health, capillaries, and why blood flow matters for cognition
18:30 Diabetes, neuropathy, and microvascular damage
21:10 Clinical trial results: CGP and peripheral neuropathy improvements
24:30 Dementia prevention & the Lancet Commission’s 45% risk reduction
27:30 Exercise, walking, and how little movement makes a big difference
31:00 Education, hearing loss, and overlooked dementia risk factors
34:40 Social isolation, loneliness, and brain decline
38:10 Traumatic brain injury, sports, and long-term brain health
41:30 Sleep, circadian rhythm, and protecting cognitive function
44:00 Key biomarkers for brain health, including homocysteine
47:30 Nutrition, the MIND diet, and supporting the aging brain
51:00 CGP dosing, usage, and clinical applications
55:30 Women’s brain health, hormones, and dementia risk
59:00 Future research, medicated foods, and what’s next for CGP
1:02:00 Final takeaways: keep brain health simple and proactive

Full Transcript:

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: [00:00:00] Yeah. So yeah, the low down on that for me is even 15 minutes of vigorous walking a day makes a massive difference. So, oh gosh. Look, I read some, I read more recently that people who had walked at least 15 minutes a day had about 16 years, uh, longevity. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: As a result. So 

Jodi Duval: I have people telling me, well, I, I, what should I be doing?

Jodi Duval: There's all these different options for exercise I should be doing, or even eating is even more confusing than what sort of diet I should be choosing. So you don't have to overcomplicate these things.



Jodi Duval: Welcome to the show, Dr. Amanda Wiggins. Thank you so much for coming on and speaking with me today about your extensive, incredible knowledge on brain. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So lovely to be here, Jody. Thank you for having me. [00:01:00] 

Jodi Duval: My pleasure. So let's dive straight into it 'cause I am like itching to get started and hear more about CGP.

Jodi Duval: So, um, talk to me about why you got interested in. Brain health, what you see coming and sort of like the most exciting things that brought you into the field and some of the breakthroughs associated with this. You know, we've got a big, um, you know what I'm seeing in clinic as well, a huge component of, um, brain health issues, dementia, memory, brain fog, et cetera, et cetera.

Jodi Duval: Ex increasing exponentially in at the moment, I feel. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It's a growing concern globally, actually. So my background is I started studying neuroscience straight out of high school. I went to university here in New Zealand, did an undergrad honors degree in neuroscience. Uh, at the time I.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: A bit, probably a bit young and naive, and I really wanted to understand sort of the seat of consciousness, [00:02:00] what makes us who we are and is that all embedded in our brain cells type thing? Yeah. Um, I don't think I've quite answered that question yet, but anyway, that aside, 

Jodi Duval: do we 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: ever, yeah. I dunno if you can answer it, but I, I went on to do a PhD at the University of Melbourne, which I was fantastic.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Fantastic city, fantastic university. And then did a postdoc in, uh, sort of neurobiology at UCSF in San Francisco. Uh, I left the academic world about 19 years ago. Um, I, I kind of, I, towards the end of my time in San Francisco, I'd had a pretty rough long week locking myself in a dark room, looking down a transmission electron microscope every day, all day.

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: I just felt like I was seeing double and I thought, you know what? There's gotta be more to life than this. There's all this amazing research going on around the world. I really wanted to get involved in commercializing it and getting out of, you know, an r and d lab and getting science out into the world where [00:03:00] it can help people, and did a few other things related to sort of biotech regulations.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, and more recently, in the last 11 years, I've been working, uh, in the, in the early. Company, uh, early companies here in New Zealand and helping them commercialize science. So yeah, I joined the CGP lab just about a year and a half ago, and the reason I jumped into the CGP lab is 'cause I was just so, um, so impressed with the research that had led to the formation of the company around CGP and what it does and how it works.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And there's just so much potential. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah, and that's what I'm really fascinated about it, because again, I I said to you off, off, um, you know, camera, it's something that I, you know, you don't hear about these things, um, readily until someone pops up in your inbox and it's like, wow, look at this. And then you go down a rabbit hole and then the rabbit hole continues.

Jodi Duval: So it's very, very exciting. Um, but yeah, I, I think that's the thing with research. Just to follow on from what you were saying is it's [00:04:00] frustrating is that you're in the labs, you're doing the research, you're. You are, you are writing, you're spending so many as you as, as you said, hours under, under, you know, huge dark rooms or fake lighting and you don't always see the outcomes.

Jodi Duval: And it can, I, I feel it can be frustrating that you are, you know, not seeing what, where it can be reaching or what it's impacting in the wider audience and wider populations. And so that's where you get more now and talking sort of jump into a bit more business later on with you as well. And how you can actually start to educate and be, you know, touching those people that you want to and hearing the success stories and knowing what it's impacting and hearing that.

Jodi Duval: So from a human perspective it's just so much more that that passion comes, isn't it? So it's beautiful. Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And I think for me, it all came full circle a few years ago when my aunt actually passed away of Alzheimer's disease. And then my stepfather has also recently been di being diagnosed with vascular dementia.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And I think, you know, being a neuroscientist. It just [00:05:00] really got, uh, for me, it just, like, all of a sudden all this kind of purpose came into my life. Like there's a whole education piece here that I think is missing in the world around lifestyle preventative measures that people can e relatively easily make to protect their brain later in life.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And, you know, that's really the reason I wanted to, you know, get out there and start speaking on podcasts. 'cause I think there's a bit of an overlooked area. You know, like we, we know that we need to keep exercising our muscles, otherwise we'll get sarcopenia that, um, muscle mass is very important. Uh, you know, it's, it's very, it's just as important to keep your brain healthy as well as you age.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And, um, you know, for me that's a key message that I really want to get out there. It's not even really about a product, even though I work for a pretty amazing product company. It's really about the easy free. Changes we can make today that will help protect our brain for a lifetime of clarity later. 

Jodi Duval: Hmm.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: [00:06:00] Absolutely. That's where I'm at. I've got a bit obsessive about it. 

Jodi Duval: I think it's, and I think you're right on time, like you said, I think we haven't, we've been ignoring this for way too long. I also have my, um, my nana passed away with Alzheimer's as well, so it's very close to my heart. I see it. All the time within clinic.

Jodi Duval: And now I deal a lot with perimenopausal women and it's very scary for all of them because the memory loss is a key component of the, the hormonal changes that are happening for them. Um, and there's a lot of fear that's out there around, you know, your inflammation and issues associated with brain function as well as then the memory side of things.

Jodi Duval: You know? And we know that all aspects and, and especially in, in what I look at in the clinic, you've got gut health and there's, it can be so complex I think that's we're getting at. And so when we look at it and we can actually have key factors of what we can be applying to our lives, that can be really the most impactful, which we'll get into.

Jodi Duval: Um, then we understand a little bit more, we feel more in control, we feel [00:07:00] more empowered that we can actually do something about that. Mm. Um, so yeah. Let, well, let's dive in. So what fascinated me and caught my attention, it was black currents. I was like, of all things but currents. So talk to me a little bit about, more about the CGP.

Jodi Duval: Um, and this IGF one, um, axis, so this is sort of like a fascinating component of the research and where it came from. So talk me through, from like, obviously you got into the company, you found the research fascinating and you saw what they were doing. So talk me through all of that. Give us a little bit more context.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, yeah. The, actually the health the company came to be is a really interesting and quite serendipitous story. So, um, before we were the CG P lab, the company was focused on New Zealand growing black current, uh, extract, which in itself is a, is a wonderful thing full of an signin. But, um. Uh, the founders were particularly interested in whether black current extract had any impact on Parkinson's disease.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So they had a couple of friends who had [00:08:00] been taking black current, uh, extract capsules and no. And they'd noticed huge improvements in their, um, symptoms. So they managed to get one of New Zealand's leading Parkinson's doctors. Here in New Zealand doc, uh, professor Tim Anderson to do a clinical trial where they enrolled Parkinson's patients and gave them these black current extract capsules for four weeks.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Mm-hmm. Uh, and the main clinical outcome actually was a significant improvement in mood scores, so depression and anxiety. There was no significant change in their motor scores, which was a bit of a shame. Um, but anyway, after they had finished that clinical trial, they serendipitously went to a conference and sat next to the world expert on CGP, whose name is Dr.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Ian Gu. She's now our Chief Science Officer. They managed to convince her to test some blood samples of these patients, uh, for the CGP content, and she said, no, no, it won't have any cgp. Uh, lo and behold, there was significantly elegant, [00:09:00] elevated CGP, both in the plasma samples and also in the cerebral spinal fluid sample.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So showing that it has really good bioavailability both through the gut and into the brain. So that was really what kicked off. The whole formation of the CDP lab. So that was published back in 2018 and the company was formed in 2020. Um, so yeah, but you know, like many cool things in the world, there was a serendipity, uh, element there.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And, um, so it turns out that Dr. Jan Guan, um, she's spent about 30 years of her life researching CGP, and she's, she's considered the world's foremost expert on the kind of the endogenous regulation of IGF one insulin-like growth factor one. Um, so yeah, it's really that large body of research that has informed the work that we're doing now.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, and I'm happy. Yeah. So, so Jan. So 

Jodi Duval: with the, I'm just sort for, for the [00:10:00] listeners and the watches. Um, so we're talking about the cyclic glysine prolene, so maybe just a little bit more, um, of an understanding. 'cause I know it's naturally occurring compound, which is found in the black currents. Um, but it also, it is so it's like a dipeptide composed of the, the amino acids of the glycine and the proline.

Jodi Duval: So it's, so maybe a little bit more of a backstory on what that is before we jump into a little bit more 

Jodi Duval: detail. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Oh yeah, yeah, good point. I'm so jumping so 

Jodi Duval: far. I know. I went straight in with just the code words. So, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: um, yeah, so Cgp, as you said, um, Jody, it stands for cyclic glycine Proline. So glycine and proline are amino acids that will be well known to many of your listeners, I'm sure.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Uh, when you combine those two amino acids under prolonged heat and. Even better with pressure, they ize and it's really that ized dipeptide that has high biological activity. Yeah. Uh, so we've developed our [00:11:00] own manufacturing process that combines black current together with, uh, beef bone, collagen peptides, and, and it's combining those two together under extended heat, uh, and pressure process that actually cycles the glycine and prolene to form cgp.

Jodi Duval: Gotcha, gotcha. Very interesting. So how would that, um, I, I guess for those who, you know, don't understand in terms of what the difference would be from the cyclic versus just glycine proline on their own, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: I'm not sure that glycine Proline exists as a linear dipeptide. I think that it always forms into the cyclic structure.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. So the class of compounds that it belongs to is actually, it's an interesting, it's one of, uh, uh, a number of compounds in that class, which is a word that's too long to say. 'cause I know I'll get it wrong. But that, that class of di cyclic dipeptides has been quite extensively studied for its [00:12:00] anti-cancer properties in vitro.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. Um, so that, that's just a side thing. We're not investigating that. But, um, yeah, CGP is, is, is one of a larger class of sort of anti-cancer molecules really. But we are not looking at it for that. We're looking at it for its brain health attributes, and it's particularly good at rebuilding and repairing.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: That's where CGP really, really comes into its own. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. And it's fascinating how, so I was, I was obviously doing a little bit of, of diving into with the IGF one. And so that's actually, you know, holding that, the, the aspects and the, the, the focus of the IGF one in the brain, that protective, um, component.

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. So I guess like, you know, what, what have you found in terms of, you know, interesting components of what you've and, and obviously brought into and being into the, in this company, and what are you finding to be the most fascinating components of this? Mm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Look, I think it's that homeostatic mechanism of how [00:13:00] CGP regulates IGF one.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: That's kind of the foundation of, of the business really. Um, so IGF one, um, in circulation, the vast majority of it is bound to a binding protein and is inactive. And it's only when it's dislodges from that binding protein that it becomes active in the circulation where it can go and do its thing. And it does lots of different things depending on what stage of life you're at.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: It has different functions in the body. Mm-hmm. Um, so what's interesting about CGP is it competes for binding to that binding protein with IGF one. So if you increase the amount of CGP you have in your system, you'll dislodge more IGF one to go and be more biologically active in your body. Um, so you're not, you're not.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Actually increasing the amount of IGF one, just the amount of biologically active IGF one. Here's the other side of the coin, is that IGF one's actually fairly enzymatically unstable when it's dislodged and free and [00:14:00] going, doing its thing. Uh, it's broken down within a couple of minutes and one of the breakdown products is CGP.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So CGP is naturally in all of our bodies at a certain level. And really Dr. Gwen's headline research is around, uh, the ratio of cgp to igf, one being one of the key, uh, biological indicators of, of brain health going forward. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And she's shown that in a number of models. So in a stroke model, Parkinson's model.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And, uh, Alzheimer's model as well, so that, that's really all of that research was done before she joined the company. Yeah. Um, so since I joined the company, we've, uh, the most exciting thing we've done, uh, lots of exciting things is that we've, we've completed a clinical trial on, um, people with type two diabetes who have the vascular complications of type two diabetes, of which there's three, and 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: [00:15:00] we can talk about that.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: We can do a deep dive, but it all comes back to that IGF one mechanism. And, and, and one of the main things that IGF one does from about middle age adulthood. Onwards is to regulate capillary stability and growth. Mm. So capillaries just do a little real quick 1 0 1 on blood flow. So blood comes outta your heart is pushed around through the arteries.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: It goes through capillary beds, which surround all of our organs. And that I think of that as like delivering the groceries. It's delivering the oxygen and the goods to the cells, and taking out the trash as well. And then it's going back up to your heart via the vein. So the capillaries are the tiny little ones where all the exchange happens of the good stuff going in and the waste going out.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So very, very important for organ health. Very, very important for brain health as well. And as we age. I read that, uh, the brain, the blood supply throughout our brain declines about [00:16:00] 0.42% year on year from middle age on. Isn't that quite scary thought, isn't it? 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. You think, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: wow. 

Jodi Duval: So our blood flow would be the same all the way through our life, but Absolutely.

Jodi Duval: Should be. Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. And there's this whole sort of emerging area of research that, you know, really highlights the importance of blood vessel health in your overall health for vitality and longevity. So, absolutely. Yeah. So, wow. That, that is a long story right there. But the c, you know, CGP is regulating the activity of IGF one, and in doing so, it's supporting particularly capillary health.

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Vascularity. 

Jodi Duval: We see a lot of that and we, I think we are aligned. You know, when we think of vascularity, we think of the cardiovascular system and we think about heart health. And so a lot of focus has always been on that cardiovascular pace of heart health. And yes, of course that is, but the vascularity component, the capillary, that's everywhere.

Jodi Duval: And we are even talking about, you know, nitric oxide. We're talking about sexual, [00:17:00] you know, sexual health as well. Mm-hmm. We're talking about sleep, we're talking about oxygen delivery to all the different organs. Neuropathy we're talking about. All these components that we don't, I think, align with all the time.

Jodi Duval: And so is vascular health and of course in diabetes that it's a, it's a one major component that's decreased or we notice it more, more so. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Mm-hmm. 

Jodi Duval: So, okay. Let's talk about some of this research thing, because I was gonna ask you about, 'cause I knew you guys have done a lot more research and you are, you are looking to do more research.

Jodi Duval: So 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: let's, 

Jodi Duval: let's dive a little bit deeper into this diabetes study that you did. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. So we enrolled people with type two diabetes who'd had, who'd had diabetes for a minimum of eight years. Mm-hmm. Because the thing we really wanted to look at was peripheral neuropathy, which, which is a vascular microvascular complications.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So that's when the nerves usually in the, usually in the feet, but not always. It can occur elsewhere, but most [00:18:00] commonly in the feet, the nerves start to essentially shrivel up. They start shrinking, and then they will start retreating from the feet. Mm. And patients feel, um, phantom sensations, um, pins and needles tingling.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And eventually as the nerve continues to de degenerate, they'll, they'll completely lose sensation in the foot. So the problem there is balance. One, very difficult to balance if you can't feel your foot and. Damage to the feet. So you can't feel if you've stood on something sharp or if you have, uh, a diabetic ulcer, which can then become infected.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And we know that people with type two diabetes is somewhere between eight and 24 times more likely to require an amputation. So peripheral neuropathy is the gateway to a, you know, very serious, um, outcome, patient outcomes, and there's no treatment. Currently. There's a few FDA approved, um, medicine pain meds available in the us.

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, actually read a [00:19:00] scary statistic the other day, a paper that said 69% of people in the US with peripheral neuropathy will be offered opioid pain relief. So that in itself is a very troubling statistic. 

Jodi Duval: Right. It's scary. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. Yeah. So the, these vascular complications, there's actually three of them are the tripathy they're called, so peripheral neuropathy.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So that's the nerve one nephropathy is when kidneys have leaky capillaries, and retinopathy is the other one. So that's also, um, characterized by leaky disordered capillaries in the eye. That leads to all sorts of problems. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah, yeah. Goodness. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Very problematic. Yeah. So we recruited who, who had type two diabetes together with peripheral neuropathy.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Uh, we gave them our CGP supplement for a total of six months and we gave them three hospital visits, one at the start, one in the middle, and one at the end. And, uh, at that three [00:20:00] month mark, we found that the patients had a significant improvement in their foot sensation, ability to feel when you probe their feet, basically.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And that, that improvement actually got better in the second three months as well. And there were a bunch of secondary improvements in as well, so improvements in kidney markers, uh, and also an improvement in hba one C, which was quite unexpected. So, um, yeah, really 

Jodi Duval: for six months, that's an incredible change.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. 

Jodi Duval: Wow. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, so when we recruited, we recruited patients whose peripheral neuropathy was, um, in the medium range, not severe, severe. Mm-hmm. Um, and not too mild because we wanted to see a reasonable response and, um. We're absolutely thrilled with it. That's, that's under peer review at the moment, pending publication, so fingers crossed any day.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. And yeah, the, the, you know, the cool thing about that is there, there is actually no treatment available for peripheral neuropathy, whereas there's stuff you can [00:21:00] do for retinopathy, so that's when you get similar thing in the eye. So if you have retinopathy, you can go and get injections of something called, uh, it's an antibody to vascular endothelial factor.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Mm-hmm. So mm-hmm. Reduces the amount of overactivity that's happening in the, in the capillary growth. 

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: and the other thing we found is that CGP treatment reduced V-E-G-F-V-E-G-F-A. Vascular endothelial growth factor a amount. So again, it speaks to that homeostatic mechanism of regulating the activity of IGF one, not necessarily boosting it or inhibiting it, but regulating it.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Mm-hmm. And so what happens in type two diabetes is often you get a much higher, you get a big increase in VEGF, which spurs on this really like disordered growth of capillaries, and they grow so fast that they, the, the endothelial lining doesn't form properly and they become quite leaky 

Jodi Duval: weak. Mm-hmm.[00:22:00] 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. Yeah. So, so it proved out, you know, in, in that patient cohort. Our hypothesis around that regulating, um, the blood vessel growth. So that was, you know, it was really a very stunning result. Really. Um, really interesting. I've started doing a bit of a deep dive into blood vessel structure. You know what it's like you go down a wormhole and you just start reading and reading.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, 

Jodi Duval: yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So the idea of one receptors are located on this particular part of blood vessels called parasites. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, and parasites are part of the cellular makeup of a blood vessel. They're like a master builder. They tell the bits where to go. They tell the endothelial lining cells where to go and to form tight junctions, and they basically work like a scaffold in there and they help the blood vessel also remain elastic.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: They help with blood flow and elasticity. [00:23:00] Um, but yeah, the main thing I like to, I sort of think of them now after all this reading I've been doing is a sort of a master buildup. I tell everyone where to go. They make sure the build happens properly and is not leaky. We don't want any leaky vessels. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah.

Jodi Duval: No, we don't. We absolutely don't. And I think it's, it's for, um, you know, normal for, for injuries. You know, when we're talking about disease states here, and obviously you're deep diving for these purposes, and we're making the biggest marks on disease states like dementia and, um, diabetes and as you were saying, Parkinson's in some of these fields.

Jodi Duval: But it's all about that, um, vascularity because that's, you say the nutrients and the oxygen have to get to these places to actually be doing the healing and then to actually give the messages to the master. Well give the, the, the equipment to the master builders. So we can look at this also for, for general health.

Jodi Duval: You know, like there, there's, there's, there's a aspect of like injury, um, prevention, support, you know, um, even when we get, you know, brain injuries or, um, you know, con con. Sports, [00:24:00] you know, anyone who's getting concussions in that way as well. So you can actually be looking at all of these supports for that vascularity in, in many, many applications.

Jodi Duval: So, but it's fascinating to see the results in the, the, the research for the actual conditions that don't have the support already. 'cause you're actually giving some, um, you know, a, a ability for you, for someone to do something about it. Earlier on. Mm-hmm. And actually have better outcomes. So it is incredible.

Jodi Duval: Absolutely incredible. So there might be more that you wanna say about that, but I do wanna dive into a little bit more, um, of your information around dementia. I know we started there and it's close to your heart. Um, and obviously there is a big component of that. And I know you talk about a lot of brain health and what we can actually do.

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. And I wanted to go through that. You know, obviously we have, um, a beautiful product that you mentioned and your, your company is doing. Um, but you also talk a lot about how we can and with lifestyle changes, support, dementia risk, um, and dementia itself by about 45%. So I wanted to dive into this [00:25:00] a little bit more and what does that look 

Jodi Duval: like?

Jodi Duval: You know, what are we talking about? We all have our ideas of what it takes to look after a healthy brain and to keep memory and vascularity and everything healthy, including some sleep and glymphatic. You know, we've got all of that there. But let's talk and dive into this now. Mm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. Thank you. Because there's so much we can do that doesn't actually involve 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: buying a product.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Right. That I'm, I'm really a big advocate of that. Yeah. Um, you know, I think for me, probably the, the go-to publication on this is the Lancet Commissions report they put out last year, 2024 on dementia prevention care and treatment. So, um, the Lancet Commission is a big, very, very heavy hitting group of the world's best minds on dementia.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Essentially a combination of researchers, carers, and medical doctors. 

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So every four years they go out and they review all of the new literature that's been published on dementia, and they bring it together in [00:26:00] one sort of, I guess you'd call it like a mega meta analysis. And so that means that only the strongest data pulls through.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So it doesn't necessarily capture everything. It captures the strongest. Areas of evidence. So in the 2024 report, they identified 14 modifiable risk factors, which as, as you said, Jody, all add up to, uh, a risk profile of about 45% of a person's risk of developing dementia. Now, I don't know about you, but to me that's 

Jodi Duval: huge's a huge percentage, especially when, when it's lifestyle factors, you know, it's how we're living day to day.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. It's so fascinating. And what one of the newly identified risk factors was, was education early in life, which contributed. So lack of education early in life contributed about a 5% risk of developing dementia later in life. 

Jodi Duval: Wow. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Isn't that interesting? 

Jodi Duval: Surprising. That's surprising because I've [00:27:00] never, I've never heard it put in that way.

Jodi Duval: Associating with dementia. Huh? 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. Well to me that just speaks to the use it or lose it ethos with the brain. Exactly. The brain is just billions of cells connecting. And if you don't use those connections, say, will atrophy and die just like a muscle 

Jodi Duval: and to be pushed and challenged in those directions.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I actually saw a story recently that said that younger generation, so, so my generation and younger. Mm-hmm. Uh. Less likely to develop dementia than say our parents or our grandparents were, and they don't exactly know the reason. Um, but they, they, I think one of the leading reasons is women's increased access to education.

Jodi Duval: I was thinking that. Yeah. Because we were originally just at home and not pushing our brains in different directions, maybe sewing, maybe doing some gardening and things like that. But we weren't actively learning constantly and reading and, um, doing [00:28:00] courses and all sorts like we do now. Yeah, yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah.

Jodi Duval: So it's interesting, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: isn't it? That's, that's population health playing out at a really macro level level. I, I love it. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yeah. No, it is. So what other factors have you seen? And I know for, for what I look at in terms of prevention and brain health, exercise is a huge component because we are also talking about the vascularity and the movement.

Jodi Duval: You know, we are making sure everything is seen strong. We are looking after our capillaries and our vessels, um, and. Sleep, obviously for me, I always look at, for brain health, um, diet is a huge one. Mm-hmm. So what else in terms of even specifics that you see coming through the research or what you always, uh, trying to educate more on and trying to get out there more to, to be able to give people the tools that they need to prevent this?

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, good question. And, and Jody, you've highlighted some of the key elements from that Lancet report, but you know, in addition to those, um, hearing loss was [00:29:00] identified as a major contributor to a person's risk of developing dementia. And that was, uh, hearing loss was attributed with about a 7% increase in risk of development dementia.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So that just says. Go get your hearing checked. 

Jodi Duval: Yes. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And if you need hearing aids, do not worry about how they look. Just get, get it, get them, you know, they're really good these days. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. They're, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: um, you know, exercise was a really interesting one. So that was identified in the Lancer report. Um, but I was quite surprised to see that they attributed only a 2% risk of physical inactivity to dementia later.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: I thought that was a bit, seemed a bit low to me, because I think to, you know, exercise is one of the easiest things you can implement in your life, right? Yeah. And should so on the daily, 

Jodi Duval: yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: I think when it comes to physical activity, you know, gosh, gosh, gosh, I feel like every day there is a 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: headline in my inbox.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: This tells you how obsessed I am about reading about this stuff, [00:30:00] about what is optimal. You know, what's optimal for walking? Is it actually 10,000 steps a day? Is it. Something else. Is it something, oh, like, oh, I just feel like the main message here should be don't overthink it. Just get out there and do it.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. 

Jodi Duval: We just need to move because we're doing just, just, we're more, um, sitting at desks, inside rooms. We just need to move as natural humans are meant to. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Absolutely. Yeah. So. Yeah, the low down on that for me is even 15 minutes of vigorous walking a day makes a massive difference. So, oh gosh. Look, I read some, I read more recently that people who had walked at least 15 minutes a day had about 16 years, uh, longevity.

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: As a result. So it's pretty amazing, isn't it? And, and also that the 10,000 steps a day was just a marketing gimmick made up by a Japanese company at some point. 

Jodi Duval: I saw that recently. I saw that recently too. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. 

Jodi Duval: Um, but we do tend to overcomplicate it, and this is the issue with what [00:31:00] we've currently got in the information age, is that we are saturated with information.

Jodi Duval: We get more stressed about it, we get overwhelmed. You know, I have people telling me, well, I, I, what should I be doing? There's all these different options for exercise I should be doing, or even eating is even more confusing than what sort of diet I should be choosing. Oh, no. Um, so it really has to be down to what we.

Jodi Duval: Can fit into our day and just simplify it. Like you say, just move in some way. Dance, walk, run, lay down, lay it, lay you know, up and down, up and down, up and down, doing some squats so you don't have to overcomplicate these things. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: I totally agree with you because I think too much information can just, it can just stop you in your tracks, right.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: It can lead to just like information overload. Oh, I dunno what to do. Um, I just try to keep it quite simple in my brain. I personally aim for at least 15 minutes of walking a day. Yep. And so I've got, um, two kids, two teenage [00:32:00] children, and I run a company. So I'm, I'm, you know, I'm reasonably busy. Everyone is, but I can always manage 15 minutes.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So, 

Jodi Duval: yes. Yes, exactly. And it's, again, it's an essential thing to keep your work where you want it to be as well. Your brain healthy for the work that you wanna be doing. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yes. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. I notice such a big difference. If I go through, through a period where I'm not getting enough exercise, I really notice that my brain starts to become quite foggy.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So for me, that's a real focus, is staying active. Absolutely. Have to. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And you know, as you get into the phase of life I'm at, um, agility becomes a really important thing. So I'll try to do, as you said, Jody, get down on the floor, get up, get down on the floor, get up five times. Oh, it's not as easy as it used to be, but 

Jodi Duval: No, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: keep going.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: You know? 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yeah. It's one thing I've noticed, I'm hitting 40 this year, and I realized how. More unsteady I am on my feet, which is just, again, it is this brain. Um, it's the [00:33:00] fear centers. There's a lot of things going on, I realize, but going rock climbing now is not like it was 10 years ago for me. Mm.

Jodi Duval: Because I'm like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: oh, 

Jodi Duval: oh. Running carefully. There's more fear about falling and doing injuries. So we do have to look after that balance. We have to look after the agility. We have to look after the flexibility and strength too. So there's all of those factors. So in this rapport in the lancer, what else were they saying?

Jodi Duval: Is there anything that came out that really what, other than this early stage learning, I find that quite fascinating. Was there anything else that they mentioned around the, the risk factors associated that was something that you hadn't thought would've been. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, well, I think so they kind of broke it down into life stage.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So early, earlier life. And then kind of most of the risk factors actually sat at the middle of your life, which I found really interesting. 'cause usually dementia is diagnosed after about 70, 75. Right. But actually what this shows is that these [00:34:00] factors are starting off right in the middle of your life.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So like that 40 to sort of 50 period. Um, I mean, other things in there was smoking, obviously that's a no brainer. Excessive alcohol. 

Jodi Duval: Yep. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, diabetes, traumatic brain injury. So you touched on that before. So that was one of the newly identified factors as well. So even a small head knock can lead to an increased risk in dementia.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Incredible. Which is really quite concerning. I think it's, I think of all those kids out there playing. Rugby rugby, new Zealand's best rugby nation in the world. Yes. Just wanna get that out there. Yes. Um, and taking, thank you. Taking the head knocks. So, um, there's a bit more attention coming on that in New Zealand now because there's been a few notable retired rugby players who have, um, had really major challenges with their brain health and mental health, and 

Jodi Duval: Yeah.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: One who actually, you know, committed [00:35:00] suicide as a result. So the New Zealand Rugby Union is finally standing up and taking notice. Um, yeah. And they've implemented some, um, mouth cards that can detect how much, how much force went on a person's head. Incredible. As a sort of proxy measure to what might be going on in the brain.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So that's something, it's a start at least. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, yeah. But the, the report then unknown. Yeah. Yeah. The report then went on to talk about later in life as well, so that kind of over 60 set. And, um, the surprising one in there was, um, social isolation. 

Jodi Duval: Hmm, yep. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. Yeah. So we've 

Jodi Duval: seen it to be a, a massive, huge increase in mortality, aren't we?

Jodi Duval: Mm. Right. It's just something that we are seeing loneliness to be the biggest causer of, um, ill health, but also death. It's horrible. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, it's horrible, isn't it? And, and I don't know about you, but if you think about your parents [00:36:00] and it does get harder, they perhaps lose their license or a lot of their friends start to pass away.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: They can't do the things they used to do, but there's still a lot you can do. And actually the emerging evidence suggests that, you know, even those passing interactions that you might have in a cafe or a supermarket. Really spur on good brain activity and really spur on the feel good hormones. So that's worth keeping in mind if you're out and about, have a chat to an elderly person, ask how their day's going, see if they need a hand with their groceries or whatever.

Jodi Duval: Yeah, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: that's gonna have a big impact. Um, 

Jodi Duval: such a beautiful thing. Yes. I think that's very, very important. We all know how, how good we feel after someone comes up and have a conversation with us or how we feel, how we feel actually just interacting with someone new. And I think that's the thing isn't that as well is like we, we are growing all of those neurons and those connections by actually interacting in different ways.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Absolutely. Yeah, that's the thing, [00:37:00] like having a, having a, a face-to-face interaction with another human is like a really rich experience for the brain, right? We are trying to, we're trying to determine do they like me? Do they not, what's going on with their body language? What, what is it they said again, I go, you know, what am I gonna say in response?

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Or, I don't, that's, that's just so rich for the brain. That's a wonderful thing. And it's, I, I worry about the younger generation with all, everything just being online these days, I don't, I don't know what's gonna happen there. 

Jodi Duval: Yes. I think that's a podcast on its own. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. 

Jodi Duval: I'll get all my, um, soapbox on all of that.

Jodi Duval: 'cause I've got young kids too. Well, not so young. I've got a teenager and a 10-year-old as well, so I'm right in the thick of that at the moment, so it's right close to my heart and I can see the, the impacts on the, from the brain's perspective, and that's troubling. Very rude. Um, and like you say, you've got the coupling of the sports and the TBIs and the small concussions [00:38:00] that no one's takes.

Jodi Duval: Seriously. You know, I'm living with the children that are in the sports and seeing some of these head knocks, and no one actually takes it seriously. And I've got a hyperbaric in my clinic and I have, you know, athletes coming in, you know, top, top UFC, top basketball, top football. And as soon as they know, as soon as they get a head knock at a game or they've, they've felt like they've hit something, boom, they're straight into the hyperbaric to help support 'em.

Jodi Duval: Good. So it is something that I think we don't take seriously. And then I see years down the track, the implications associated with immune system, gut health, and obviously of course mental health. It's, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: hmm. 

Jodi Duval: It's really, really sad. So I think for, for children, it's our up and coming, isn't it? It's something that we have so much impact on in early years that we can now educate and actually support them to then have even lesser, um, of risk factors associated with dementia and, and, um, brain health disorders.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Jodi Duval: [00:39:00] Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: I think we're living in unprecedented times in terms of the amount of, you know, digital content that our young people are engaging with. It. It does con, it concerns me quite a lot actually. Mm-hmm. Um, mine are a bit past the fortnight age, thank goodness. But, um, I do remember when they were into Fortnite.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: You know, sometimes it sounded like they're on the battlefield. The amount of stress that they got into the cortisol. Cortisol takes a couple of days to get outta your body. It's very unhealthy to have prolonged cortisol and, um, some of those games are so addictive too. They're deliberately designed to be addictive for young people.

Jodi Duval: They do they? 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, we're getting a wee bit sidetracked 'cause I'm no expert on that, but I am a mom, so I worry about it. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah, I know. All right, so let's re back on track. And I wanna talk about actually a little bit more of, so we, we've talked about, um, this, the cgp, which is incredible, the IGF one axis, looking at that.

Jodi Duval: Um, how we can support, you know, and, and being a black current is just [00:40:00] incredible. I, I, I love that, you know, every time being the true naturopath that I am, every time I realize a plant has something to do with it, I'm like, oh my gosh, of course this is, this is the isolated components of it. Um, but let's sort of like swing back into being, um, A CEO, you know, I business owner myself.

Jodi Duval: It's, it's quite, it's quite a tricky thing to be doing and promoting and being on track of everything. It takes really good brain health when we're talking through all of that. But where, how do you know, I guess, is that sort of decision of what needs to be translated into the public eye, you know, from what you are finding and what you are trying to research.

Jodi Duval: Does it come from more of a passion perspective? Is it, you know, is there any specific, um, I get I guess little like gold points that you can talk about that really, um, power you in certain ways or make or help you make decisions about certain things within the business. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: You know, I think for me the ethos is you cannot pour from an empty cup.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: I think as [00:41:00] business owners, business executives, moms, the, the temptation is just to, to, to run yourself ragged. Right? 'cause there's always so much you could be doing and so many demands placed on your time. Yeah. I have, you know, the more mature I've become, the more disciplined I've got around saying no.

Jodi Duval: Yes. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: More discipline. I've got around segmenting of time for myself and absolutely non-negotiable sleep routine. Totally non-negotiable. So, uh, I could keep working till midnight no problem. Plenty of work to do, but yeah, I make sure I'm off by eight. And so normally I've usually cooked dinner before that and some, you know, I get back line often, but not always.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, so I'm, I make sure I'm off by eight. I try to do some very calming sort of yoga exercise style exercise, be a stretch to call it proper yoga, but sort of stretching yoga style. Um, I do quite a simple skincare routine before I go to [00:42:00] bed, and I always read when I get into bed and it's just, it just sets me up if I don't do those things.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Like if I'm traveling and I can't, or I, or I'm out at a networking event or something late and I, I just, I just don't have a good sleep. I'm too stimulated in my brain. So for me, it's about two hours before I go to bed that I start getting into that real kind of low key switching off my brain, switching off chat to the kids, what's going on?

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So for me, yeah, the ethos is around do not, you can't pour from an empty cup. And so just really look after yourself and, 'cause if you go down, you know, a lot of stuff goes down around you. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: I love that. 

Jodi Duval: I 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: love that. That's, that's been a bit of a long, long life lesson for me that I'm there now.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. 

Jodi Duval: Which is good. It's a good, when you've made that realization, isn't it, that you're like, okay, that's what I need now. Oh, this is how I be at my utmost or a hundred percent and use my brain the best in the day. I actually need to look after myself. [00:43:00] Yeah. It's a beautiful realization and very important for everyone listening too.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. Yeah. And the other thing that's just top of mind for me at the moment is just with the, you know, supplements and the regulatory space with supplements, which is reasonably tricky to navigate. So with that, um, diabetes study that I mentioned 

Jodi Duval: mm-hmm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: We're actually going to develop a different category of product for that indication.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So a medicated food. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Which is also known as food for special medical purposes. That's the long term. Yeah. And these are nutritional products, um, that can have, uh, disease or condition related label claim. So you can actually say on the packet for the, the, um, nutritional use for diabetic complications, say for example.

Mm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, or it's difficult to say stuff like that on supplement packaging. 

Jodi Duval: Yes. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. So have 

Jodi Duval: that differentiation. I think that's 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, that's right. That's right. It puts it [00:44:00] into, um, more, um, I guess slightly more medical category. It's still not a registered pharmaceutical, obviously, and we've decided we're not gonna go down that route.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, so that, that, that's just yeah. A different kind of product category and, um. We need to do another clinical trial to get enough, um, evidential substantiation to get that to market. 

Jodi Duval: Okay. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And so I think that's about a, that's about a two year timeframe. So 

Jodi Duval: yeah. It's not a quick time turnaround, is it, with these things when you're having to do the research because you need to be doing it and it's evidence, you know, that you, you need to actually be supplying the public with and, and obviously your own backing and information.

Jodi Duval: That's such been such a good product, but it's not a quick process by any means. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: That's right, yes. Yeah. Yes. 

Jodi Duval: Or a stress free process by any means. Yeah. Because there's paperwork and a lot of backwards and forwards, I can imagine. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, that's right. That's right. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. All right. So I wanted to, I, you know, I guess when you are looking [00:45:00] at these within the research more specifically, but externally, um, looking at sort of emerging tools and biomarkers, obviously we're wanting to know how to best track or look at, is there anything that you see up and coming or that you've been aware of or using within the research studies to actually give, um, you know, more of the tools for us to be measuring some of these components of vascular health specifically and associated with the brain health?

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, there's quite a bit going on in the vascular health space with, um, the glycocalyx. So that's the sort of gel-like lining on, um, blood vessels. And I know there's some tests out there that, um, can test the health of the glycocalyx. Um, there's a lot going on in the nitric oxide space as well. Mm-hmm. So nitric oxides, you know, essential for, for relaxing the smooth muscles that surround vessels.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, I think, I mean, those things aside, my, my personal favorite biomarker for brain health is homocysteine levels. 

Jodi Duval: Yes, totally [00:46:00] agree. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Do you? Awesome. Yeah. So 

Jodi Duval: it's a huge part of not getting, well, doctors are refusing to test cysteine in some cases, so it's frustrating. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: That's a really interesting one. Same here in New Zealand.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: I, last time I got my homo, well, the, the first time I got my homocysteine levels tested, my doctor was like, what? Why do you wanna do that? Because it's just not part of the standard panel of health checkups. But, um, so homocysteine is a toxic amino acid and high levels of homocysteine are very consistently related to poor cardiovascular and brain health outcomes.

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, 

Jodi Duval: which is, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: I don't really know why that's not recognized in mainstream health, but it, the evidence is incredibly clear and the good news is it's relatively easy to lower your homocysteine levels by having a good, a diet that's rich and B vitamins. 

Jodi Duval: Yes. Absolutely. [00:47:00] And I use it and you see it, um, concurrently with low B12, low folate.

Jodi Duval: Um, and it's obviously, it's that part of that sort of methylation cycle, but when you also have such huge implications with neuropathy in B12, which I find, so it's, it's measuring that risk factor, but you can actually have that biomarker in the blood that you can be using to measure it against. So it's so powerful.

Jodi Duval: Again, I don't understand why either, you know, I sort of like just mentioned all the research and actually I think it's just not been up with some of the, uh, the, the, the newer information that they're, they're not being taught, you know, it's, it's just not keeping up with that. Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Mm. There's a bunch of good research out there, um, from a group in the UK around taking B vitamins and, and, and how the benefits of taking B vitamins, uh, links to the emo Omega-3 index in your blood.

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So that all seems to be sort of connected. Um, so I dunno about. [00:48:00] You, Jody, but I do take DHA for my brain health and I do take B vitamins 

Jodi Duval: Yes. As 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: well. As well as cgp obviously. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. And 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: that's my little, 

Jodi Duval: not taken that one. So I need to have, initially have a bit of a start on that to give it a trial.

Jodi Duval: I try.

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I, I do too. I take omegas. Um, I tend to, to measure a lot, and that's the whole premise of the home hope. We do a lot of the metabolite testing and the fatty acid panels, so it's easier then to know exactly what I'm needing from a. Specific cellular timeframe. And so I really like to measure in that way.

Jodi Duval: So it will tell, it, it tells me what B vitamins I'm lacking at the time. It tells me, um, what omegas I need to be shifting and changing because I've had cases in, in some instances with clients that I actually have, well, they've been overdosing on their omega threes and not enough omega sixes, which is really interesting.

Jodi Duval: Oh. And so then we [00:49:00] have, um, other complications. You know, I've actually had, uh, like heart complications with having too much Omega-3. So I find that really fascinating from what I do within the clinical practice as I do a lot of those measurements and just be making a lot of different connections between clients and cases.

Jodi Duval: Um, yeah, that's, that's my nerd that nerding me. I like, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: I love it. You're a numbers gal. I'm, um, that's really interesting. 'cause I just guess on the omega front, I take, I take the, I take back Moore's DHA, I take it every second day because I'm just not sure. I eat a bit of fat fish too. So 

Jodi Duval: that's it. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: That's, 

Jodi Duval: you sort of like weighing up between how much you're getting in from the dietary side to then how much you're supplementing.

Jodi Duval: And sometimes if you feel like you are needing more, which I do, sometimes I will take more if I can't test. But again, they, these tests aren't cheap and this is the thing is like the medical system not geared towards prevention and looking at this sort of stuff. It's only looked at from a, from an intervention perspective.

Jodi Duval: So we [00:50:00] need to be maybe, you know, like rallying more to get some benefit out of some of the test costs so people can get more preventative, um, measurements from and then know what to do. Because otherwise you can't know what to, unless testing. Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Jodi Duval: Oh, it's fascinating. No, I didn't realize the link between, um, yeah, the, the, the omegas in that, in that study.

Jodi Duval: So I'll have to have a look at that now as well. Yeah, you prompted me some more, some more reading. Yeah, I'll 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: sent you the link. 

Jodi Duval: Thank you. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: That's some of my favorite brain research actually, that Omega-3 and B vitamin stuff. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. It's 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: really, really powerful. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. No, that's, that's awesome. So I guess what. I wanted to, before we run out of time, there's a, a, a few global trends and things that you, you know, want to know or want people to know about, um, brain health, but women's brain health.

Jodi Duval: Um, I always like to make the differentiation because not much there, there's been very little over the years now it's improving with women's research. And we've talked [00:51:00] about, um, yes without, you know, generation and the generation before ours, knowing that they're going to have more of the risk factors associated with dementia, more associated with that, that, that neuronal use and, and um, growth.

Jodi Duval: But with women's health, brain health, there is a huge difference in percentage of, um, either, either decline quite quickly and obviously there is hormonal implications that we associate with that, but there might be other things as well. And that we might, or that you've noticed. Is there anything there that you've looked at in terms of the difference between men and women?

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: This one's a bit, this one's a bit of an average one to be honest with you, but actually women, because we live longer than men on average, that's one of the key drivers. So age is the biggest risk, risk factor for, 

Jodi Duval: yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Okay. Mental decline. And we just simply live a few years longer than our male counterparts.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So there you go. That's, that's probably not what you wanted to [00:52:00] hear. Um. 

Jodi Duval: No, but that's fascinating from like obviously that research perspective and what they're, what they're seeing. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. Yeah. Um, is 

Jodi Duval: there, is there a more specific, um, increase or association early on after, you know, within the certain year ranges, say from 50 to 70 women are at more at risk, or is that just quite even across the men and women?

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Uh, women are at slightly elevated risk of, of brain decline in that middle age and onwards bracket. Um, I think HRT has been shown to be, have a preventative effect, so putting back in a bit more estrogen and progesterone. 

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, particularly for postmenopausal women seems to be protective. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yeah.

Jodi Duval: So 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: that's an emerging area of research. Obviously it's not without its risks, but it's worth considering. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yeah, I've, I've seen a lot of that come through and, and obviously read up and, and look at that myself as well. And it, it does look positive so far, which is really, really 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: cool. Yeah. Yes, it does.[00:53:00] 

Jodi Duval: Yes. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yep. 

Jodi Duval: Fabulous. All right, so now what are we, what are we knowing for the future in this space? What, what are your hopes, goals for the company? What are you looking at to be, obviously there's more research to get this new product, um, area out for you, but after that, what, what is the company looking at?

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. Look, the company, I'm ho I hope I can come back on the show in about two years time and say, here's our amazing medicated food product for diabetic complications. 

Jodi Duval: Yes. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So we need to get through that phase two B clinical trial. Yeah. Um, you know, we also, uh, want to raise enough capital that we can start to look at brain health and aging, uh, in terms of doing a clinical trial there, uh, that it, it takes, uh, anywhere between sort of two to five years to get a result when you're measuring.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Brain health. Right? Because it's a slow process. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, you know, my hope is that we can, we can do the research to show that taking CGP, uh, [00:54:00] essentially is extremely beneficial for brain health and middle age and beyond. 

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, I actually feel quite optimistic around the kind of the dementia in Alzheimer's prevention space.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Mm. I think every week I see something new and exciting pop up. Like whether it's earlier and easier diagnosis, something really interesting, new and different in the treatment space. Um, or just simply lifestyle factors that you can make earlier in life that will reduce your risk. I feel like there's a real growing, you know, almost like a, a, a sea change in what's happening in people's recognition around the risk.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So I feel optimistic around that. Um, you know, I hope that by the time I get to the real risk age. There's a lot of treatments, a lot of options and testing and, um, I feel good about where it's all going. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah, no, it's, it's a very positive way [00:55:00] Yeah. To be think about it all, which is great. Um, and I don't think we quite got to the point of like, specific recommendations, so I just wanted to quickly chat about that.

Jodi Duval: Obviously we've got the lifestyle factors that we discussed. Yes. So there's, you know, the exercise, we didn't really dive into too much on the food part of view, point of view because there is so much saturation around that. But if there's anything else you wanted to mention towards that, I'd love you to, but also with the, with the CGP in terms of dosages, the actual product itself.

Jodi Duval: Like what are you seeing in terms of how to take it, when to take it, um, how long to take it. So we haven't actually dived into any of that yet. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well there's a bit tropic there. So just on the. Yeah, look, the nutrition space has become incredibly complex and difficult. Yeah, I think when it comes to brain health, the main, uh, research I've seen is around what's called the mind diet, which is a modification of the Mediterranean diet meets the dash diet.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So they're all very similar, almost diff [00:56:00] quite difficult to tell the tell them apart actually. But, um, what's interesting about the mind diet is, so that was tested in, uh, I think it was about a thousand people, uh, over a nine year period. And in that nine year period, those who had adhered the at the greatest to the mind diet had on average 7.5 years, uh, less brain aging compared to those who ate less of those foods.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So the mind diet is essentially. Very similar to the Mediterranean diet, sort of leafy greens. There's a focus on berries for the antioxidants, nuts and olive oil, uh, whole grains, legumes, fish and poultry. So very similar. There's absolutely no red meat in there. Um. But what I like about the mind diet is it's quite specific around how many servings is a minimum per day or per week.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Okay. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: And that, so that's quite nice, nice and clear and stuff that's relatively easy to do. Like just [00:57:00] replacing all your cooking oil with, um, olive oil, good quality olive oil. Mm-hmm. 

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Good, 

Jodi Duval: good. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Okay. That's, you know, it, it's probably similar. It's probably quite similar to, you know, other just general healthy eating practices.

Jodi Duval: Yeah. But it, like you say, it's good when it's simplified. I think that's a very, um, easy thing to follow. So it's not again, too saturated and then too scary and then not done because that 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. Yeah, that's right. So that's called the Minds Diet. So if anyone googles that, you can, you know, there's lot, there's lots of published on it.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: It's really, it's easy to find. Um, and I think your other question, Jody, was just around CGP and dosages and how to take it. So we, we sell it under our CGP Max. Range brand, and that's for sale. On our e-commerce website. We've also got a practitioner only version. Um, and we've got a standardized CGP dose, which is 40 micrograms per capsule, and we have people usually taking one, but for higher needs cases, two capsules a 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: [00:58:00] day.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, and in our diabetes study, that dose was validated, so we had two doses, 20 and 40 micrograms. It was the 40 that gave the best response. Mm-hmm. Um, in the Parkinson's study, uh, that was an earlier version of what we make now, that was only eight micrograms per day of cgp. Yeah. So, um, yeah, one to two capsules a day, uh, with or without, without food.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Doesn't matter. It's a quite a small, um, molecule that is easily absorbed, so it doesn't make any difference whether you've got food in your stomach. 

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Um, and the time of day also doesn't matter. Okay. So yeah, and we, we, we would have, um. Many, many customers who are on it for six months to a year.

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: They come off it and they want to go back on it. 

Jodi Duval: Okay. Yeah. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. So I take it, I feel clarity. That's the main thing I feel, I think of I, and I feel energized, so I, I just [00:59:00] think of, you know, blood flow is more efficient, blood flow throughout your system, and I feel that, and that's the feedback we get from our customers too, that they feel better.

Jodi Duval: Yeah. In general, it's hard, isn't it, without all the, like we said, the testings and the analysis. Mm-hmm. That's really hard for individuals to actually explain how they feel, especially when there's multiple things that they're doing at the same time. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Jodi Duval: I always find it's tricky, but again, when you're experimenting on yourself, you definitely know if that's the one thing that you've changed, that these are the differences that you're noticing.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Mm-hmm. 

Jodi Duval: So with the dosages, do you find it, you know, again, not more is better all the time, but in, in purposes of, of conversation for say, someone who is more advanced dementia versus preventing dementia, what do you say in terms of dosages for this? Is there a difference? 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah. So generally we would, for preventative health and general health maintenance, we would say one capsule a day.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So 40 micrograms of cgp. [01:00:00] So we do have people who come to us with brain, uh, injuries. 

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Stroke, we, we, a little quiet a lot of people. Take our product who have had a stroke. So there's good research, observational human clinical research showing that people who have high levels of CG endogenous CGP at the time of their stroke have a much better and more complete recovery than those people who have lower levels of CGP.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So that research was done by our CSO, but before she joined the company. Yeah. So I think that, um, you know, that's out there in the world and I think people just find that because, you know, as a supplement, we don't promote our products for serious neurological conditions, but people find us because that's really the realm of CGP is neuronal repair.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: That's what it's absolutely best at. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yes, yes. Wow. My brain is just combining hyperbaric with this and it's just, 'cause I already see the benefits from just some of these other technologies, but the combination, [01:01:00] wow. Yeah. What could we do? 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So for people who are in that kind of acute.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Phase, whether it's something like a stroke or any kind of sort of really challenging brain situation, we would go two capsules a day for three to six months. 

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Okay. And then taper it back to one for a maintenance dose. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. Wonderful. All right. Wow, there is a lot to think about there. That is incredible.

Jodi Duval: So, anything more you wanna add in terms of, um, what you wanna make sure that people know about brain health? You know, that, like parting words as such, or statements or information that, and I think you, you, you said it really well in that your positive outlook for the space in terms of dementia, but even if it's around the C, the CGP and where that's going.

Jodi Duval: Anything else you want people to remember? I guess, you know, like a summary, a summarized, um, 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: summary. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. What we've spoken about or that the key points to take away. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Look, [01:02:00] for me, the key points are just keep it simple. Just keep it simple. Do not overthink it. Think about your lifestyle and the easy. Free changes you can make to provide benefit to your brain, which will of course also provide benefit to your mental health and your physical health as well.

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: So keep it simple. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah. I love, I love your outlook, Amanda. I love the way that you explain information. Um, and I, I love your passion for the industry and where you are driving this company. And I think as you said, it's powering in the products that you can actually reach people and the word spreads and it's that, that power of of talk and sharing that really gives that not only better health benefit 'cause now we're in communities and talking, but also spreading the information that actually is working and people talk about that, right?

Jodi Duval: Mm-hmm. So, um, I really love what you're doing and I Yes. I would love to have you back on to talk about where you are going or where, where you have. [01:03:00] Have extras, discoveries, and, um, new products or new product lines that you're talking about. Fantastic. So thank you so much Fantastic for your time today.

Jodi Duval: Um, and any, so where should people go to find you and the company? 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn, Amanda Wiggins, and our product is on www ctp max.com. 

Jodi Duval: Brilliant. Easy, easy to find. Um, and we'll post all that in the, in the links, show notes as well, so everyone will be able to find that there. So thank you so much.

Jodi Duval: I can't thank you enough for your time and what you've spent with me today and it's so precious, so I really appreciate that. 

Dr. Amanda Wiggins: Thank you so much, Jody. So lovely to connect with you. 

Jodi Duval: Yeah, you too, Amanda. All right, we'll speak soon.

Find more from Dr. Amanda Wiggins:

Website: https://cgpmax.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandawiggins/

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