In this episode of the Smarter Not Harder Podcast, Boomer Anderson, Dr. Theodore Achacoso, Dr. Scott Sherr, Jodi Duval, and Dr. Allen Bookatz give one-cent solutions to life’s $64,000 questions that include:

• How do circadian rhythms regulate key physiological processes, and what happens when they become dysregulated?

• What are the health consequences of night shift work, and how can individuals mitigate its impact on sleep and metabolic function?

• What diagnostic tools and lifestyle strategies are available to identify and correct circadian rhythm dysfunction?

• How can hydration, light exposure, and targeted sleep hygiene practices support more consistent and restorative sleep?
  

What We Discuss:

00:00 Introduction to Sleep Anchoring Technique
00:21 Hydration and Circadian Rhythms
01:23 Welcome to the Smarter Not Harder Podcast
02:27 Understanding Circadian Rhythms
04:00 Defining Different Rhythms
06:07 Practical Applications of Circadian Rhythms
12:10 Diagnosing Circadian Dysregulation
14:47 Tools and Tips for Better Sleep
18:26 The Night Shift Experience: Personal Insights
20:04 Impact of Night Shifts on Health
21:37 Strategies to Combat Circadian Rhythm Dysfunction
24:21 Tactics for Better Sleep
28:34 Sleep Hygiene Tips and Tricks
30:15 Final Thoughts and Personal Sleep Hacks
37:52 Closing Remarks and Podcast Wrap-Up

Full Transcript:

[00:00:00] Dr. Ted Achacoso: I created the sleep anchoring technique. You know, instead of your, your schedule the day beginning at the time you wake up, you schedule the day at the time that you sleep, right? And make sure you have actually, you know, uh, four to five sleep cycles. An average sleep cycle is about, uh, 90 minutes, you know, and don't set their alarm for when you're in the middle of a sleep cycle.

[00:00:21] Dr. Ted Achacoso: And then, yeah, activity number two is what you do when you wake up. Right. Uh, and that activity number two is basically, you know, what the first issue do is to hydrate. Right. Um, because your body actually gets dehydrated. But anyway, although we do not know all the mechanisms for the circadian rhythms, right.

[00:00:39] Dr. Ted Achacoso: But the acupuncturists and those traditional Chinese medicine have this. Right, right. All of the organs of their own cycles and timing. Uh, it's only now that we're elucidating the. Certain drugs have to be taken at particular time of time, day to be effective. Certain supplements, for example, uh, have to be, uh, taken at particular time of day.

[00:01:11] Boomer Anderson: Okay, we've got the group here, and now we're gonna have to corral everybody. Uh, today we are, uh, Jodi picked the topic for today and she happened to do it on a day one. I didn't sleep. You have to introduce the podcast first though. Yeah. Hold on, hold on, hold on, on. Welcome to the Smarter Not Harder Podcast.

[00:01:26] Boomer Anderson: And, uh, today's show on the Smarter Not Harder Podcast is brought to you by the Biont Hacker t-shirt. If you're watching this on YouTube, that is not

[00:01:38] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Mine's over there. 

[00:01:39] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Yeah. Yeah, Allen. Allen was a little too slow 

[00:01:44] Boomer Anderson: to get the hint that he should have grabbed his, but uh, it's okay. We love him nevertheless.

[00:01:49] Boomer Anderson: And Jodi's is still in transition from, uh, it's swimming across the Pacific Ocean, Jodi, so it'll be there.

[00:01:56] Dr. Scott Sherr: It takes time.

[00:01:57] Boomer Anderson: Yeah, it's message in a bottle time. 

[00:02:01] Jodi Duval: I need to swim and come and get it. 

[00:02:03] Dr. Scott Sherr: Well, you don't have to wait till October. We, we will get, get you there beforehand. That's okay. 

[00:02:07] Boomer Anderson: Yeah. Yeah. We'll get it to you there in September.

[00:02:09] Boomer Anderson: Don't worry. I'm joking. Uh, message in a bottle. Come on. Sting reference. All right. Uh, so welcome back everybody to the Smarter Not Harder Friends gathering AKA, the podcast. And, uh, today, Jodi, what are we talking about? Today we're gonna talk about the thing that I royally screwed up last night. Uh, which are circadian rhythms.

[00:02:30] Boomer Anderson: Rhythms. Yep. Yep. And I mean, if we wanted to go all Latin about it, circa means day, daily rhythms. But, uh, let's talk about what we need to, uh, lay out for everybody today on circadian rhythms. Jodi, 

[00:02:44] Jodi Duval: I. Mm. Well firstly men are lucky 'cause they have circadian rhythms. 

[00:02:50] Dr. Scott Sherr: That's our main rhythm. That's it. Yeah, this is true.

[00:02:55] Jodi Duval: Women are 

[00:02:56] Jodi Duval: lucky because we have a monthly, [00:03:00] um, so no, that's what. So really with the, the topic was meant to be circadia rhythm is the new fasting. So how can we, um, not do three day fasts and be more consistent with our daily rhythms to have better benefit to our health? So I think we could start with how and what is determined or what determines the circadian rhythm and in our body, what is the master clock?

[00:03:32] Boomer Anderson: Okay. All right's. Good. Boom. So let's go, 

[00:03:36] Jodi Duval: go, go. Hands up. 

[00:03:38] Dr. Scott Sherr: I, I, I think it's a cool little area. It's called the Supra cosmetic Nucleus, the SCN Boom. Yes. 

[00:03:47] Jodi Duval: Yeah. Yes, that is. 

[00:03:48] Dr. Scott Sherr: And but, but all of our organs have their own circadian clocks as well. But it's all But the master one is your SCN that regulates rules them all.

[00:03:57] Dr. Scott Sherr: Kind of like the ring and the loaded rings, but not creative 

[00:04:00] Dr. Ted Achacoso: way. Well, there is the circadian rhythm, the in ian rhythm. 

[00:04:05] Boomer Anderson: Right. And the old three rhythm. We, we need, uh, you know, Dr. Ted is very big on definitions, right? So, uh, I'll, I'll take the easy one. Circadian rhythm being our daily rhythm. Who wants to go with infra and ultradian?

[00:04:20] Boomer Anderson: Let's define these terms. 

[00:04:22] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Come on guys. This is, uh, that's easy. Infra, 

[00:04:25] Boomer Anderson: ultradian. Yeah. Uh, go ahead. 

[00:04:31] Dr. Scott Sherr: So infra is within the same day, typically. Right. And then the ultra is within, over multiple days, um, in essence, right? So you have the rhythms within the same day, and you have rhythms that are from a longer period, such as the menstrual cycle that Jodi was mentioning.

[00:04:46] Dr. Scott Sherr: So infra 

[00:04:47] Dr. Ted Achacoso: and rhythms are what? 

[00:04:50] Dr. Scott Sherr: Daily rhythms, things that happen within, within the day, 

[00:04:53] Dr. Ted Achacoso: uh, that's, are, are those all ultradian rhythms, Scott? 

[00:04:56] Dr. Scott Sherr: Am 

[00:04:57] Boomer Anderson: I 

[00:04:57] Dr. Scott Sherr: messing them up? 

[00:04:57] Boomer Anderson: Is it So, I mean, an example. So let, let's, let's go with an example of an ultradian rhythm. An example of an ultradian rhythm would be a sleep cycle, right?

[00:05:07] Boomer Anderson: Uh, and so you have a 90 minute rhythm. That would be trading correct. Our 90 minute cycle would be within the ultradian rhythms, 

[00:05:17] Dr. Allen Bookatz: I believe. Did, didn't, uh, Corona sing a song about this?

[00:05:24] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Our cycles over 24 hours, like straw cycle. Right. All right. All traian rhythms are the ones within the day, and they can go very short like heartbeats, et cetera. Right? 

[00:05:38] Dr. Scott Sherr: So I was just testing all of you to see 

[00:05:41] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Ah, yes.

[00:05:44] Dr. Ted Achacoso: But, but, uh, anyway, guys, Jodi, when you started this podcast, you actually said, well, men are lucky. Have you have, um, university Cajun rhythm? Actually, the testosterone rhythm in males have been identified as an every two week. Uh, rhythm, [00:06:00] right? So it's an infra rhythm of every two weeks, and therefore you could actually have afford to have two wives.

[00:06:06] Dr. Ted Achacoso: I'm kidding. Um, but, but currently we're talking about, uh, circadian rhythm. And what's important to note here, uh, is, you know, um. The saying that we are yolked to the sun. And so, you know, you're evolutionarily we actually wake up, uh, when, when the sun is shining, ideally in our skin, it starts our cortisol and thyroid, you know, serving to wake us up and provide sugar for our activities.

[00:06:35] Dr. Ted Achacoso: And then, uh, you have, um. Uh, actually, you know, the evening, you know, when, uh, during the sunset. So we are yoked to the sun and we have actually destroyed this, uh, light became, uh, toxic to us when we started dominating the night, uh, with, with light, right? And, uh, that has, uh, actually broadened a slew of, uh, health issues for us.

[00:06:59] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Uh, but the, you know, uh, you say circadian is real fasting. Well, the classic. Fasting would be, you know, the three to two, et cetera, et cetera. But I don't usually recommend that to my patient. I recommend what to my clients if my patients is actually within the day fasting, right? Like 12 hours is sufficient of fasting is sufficient to get your mitochondria, uh, into biogenesis mode.

[00:07:21] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Minimum of 12 hours, and then more than that, then you actually get into nutritional ketosis, which is actually good for you, right? Um, where, you know, things like breakfast is like the most important meal of the day doesn't make sense anymore. And when you're actually doing those particular, uh, types of, uh, lifestyle, um, uh, changes, right?

[00:07:42] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Uh, for you to have a better revved up metabolism now. Uh, it for sleeping. I also like it to take it within the day, right? That's why I have, uh, uh, I created the, um, you know, uh, the sleep anchoring technique. You know, instead of your, your schedule the day beginning at the time you wake up, you schedule the day at the time that you sleep, right?

[00:08:05] Dr. Ted Achacoso: And make sure you have actually, you know, uh, four to five sleep cycles. An average sleep cycle is about, uh, 90 minutes. And don't set their alarm for when you're in the middle of a sleep cycle. And then, yeah, activity number two is what you do when you wake up. Right. Uh, and that activity number two is basically, you know, what the first issue do is to hydrate.

[00:08:27] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Right. Um, because your body actually gets dehydrated. But for many of us here, I think for all of us here, I think we meditate before we hydrate. Right. To, to extend our sleep. No, I'm kidding. But anyway, although we may know all the, we, we do not know all the mechanisms. You know, for the circadian rhythms, right.

[00:08:46] Dr. Ted Achacoso: But the acupuncturists and those traditional Chinese medicine have this, right, right. All of the organs of their own cycles and timing. Uh, it's only now that we're elucidating that certain drugs have to be taken at particular type of type of day [00:09:00] to be effective. Certain supplements, for example. Have to be, uh, taken a particular time of day.

[00:09:06] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Um, one of the good examples is that if you give a vitamin B 100, uh, you know, late in the day, uh, you know, and your, uh, client starts complaining that you know, Hey, you know, I developed insomnia because your protocol, you know, take out those energy. Those are energy vitamins, right? Uh, although they may need them, my, my, you should tell them, take your beef vitamins by 5:00 PM.

[00:09:28] Dr. Ted Achacoso: You know, otherwise you might remain awake through the night. So there, there are a lot of these practical things that we do. You know, we know about the, the, uh, ball clock and the, you know, uh, all, all of these per clocks, et cetera, et cetera. And those are, uh, you know, those are wonderful to know. But in the end, it needs to translate to, uh, you know, how we handle ourselves.

[00:09:53] Dr. Ted Achacoso: You know, in our own sleep cycles, and as Boomer said, we're probably two of the worst offenders here. And, um, and Allen, an occasional offender. And you know, Scott. Occasional offender, but we, you know, uh, we do our best. You know, there is a saying that there's no, um, recovering from sleep death, right? You cannot, when she occurred, a death, it actually stays there.

[00:10:17] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Even if you oversleep on weekends, et cetera, to try to recover the death. There's no such thing as, uh, truly recovering from sleep death, because in the end it all goes down to the same stress, um, uh, cycle, right? You will incur. Molecular inflammation, which is then the beginning of many of your, uh, chronic maladies as you get, as you get older.

[00:10:40] Dr. Ted Achacoso: So, uh, you know, uh, so when, especially when you're sleep deprived, et cetera, et cetera, you really have to. To monitor, uh, you know, your, your nutrient metabolize, your inflammation meta, uh, um, uh, metabolites and so on to take a look at what's going on, uh, in there because, you know, sleep deprivation, um, will also raise your stress, right?

[00:11:02] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Uh, those who are deprived sleep also eat a lot more because they think they need a lot more energy to stay up. But actually. It's just you, you know, uh, compensating for the fact that you lack sleep. So there, you know, and if you measure the cyto cytokine levels of the sleep deprived, you see of course that the cy inflammatory cytokines are actually raised up.

[00:11:25] Dr. Ted Achacoso: So, um, you know, in the circadian rhythm, that's what I focus on in a practical matter. Right? Uh, we can dig into rabbit holes about the. The, the, the genetics and everything else, but in the end, you know, we are yoked to light and we need to respect that. 

[00:11:43] Boomer Anderson: All right, I'm gonna hijack the conversation here in the spirit of, uh, home Hope and, you know, uh, health optimization medicine and practice, the whole philosophy of how, uh, Dr.

[00:11:55] Boomer Anderson: Ted teaches how all of you guys teach is what do you do when a patient's in front of you. [00:12:00] And there, there's that element of detect and correct as the cool kids say. Right. And, uh, let's, let's talk first a little bit about, uh, detection. So aside from the obvious, which is, you know, when somebody has eye bags under their eyes and looks like a raccoon, um, there might be somewhat of a circadian dysregulation issue, but, uh, what are some of your favorite tools, tricks?

[00:12:24] Boomer Anderson: Tips in terms of diagnosing this? Uh, yes. Some of the worst offenders can claim that they don't need to sleep four hours or more than four hours a night. Um, but what do you guys like to do when it comes with your clients? What, 

[00:12:38] Jodi Duval: what I've been using recently is, um, creatine in the morning for people who, who are refusing to, um.

[00:12:48] Jodi Duval: Get to sleep on time who are, who are having to have a bit of sleep debt. So I've actually been using that with some success with clients recently. So getting into specifics, but really I just pull my whip out and chain and, and give them a, a big knock in around their head and tell 'em they just need to sleep.

[00:13:04] Jodi Duval: Oh, and why you're so hungry and why are you eating sugar all day is because you need to get your sleep. Um, so I have a light prescription that I give my clients. I get them out in the morning and in the sunshine and getting that super charismatic CLE started and, um, clocking all the things and then getting three minutes, getting hydration.

[00:13:25] Jodi Duval: And so then, then they're aware from like. Like Ted, what Ted talks about all the time is his sleep anchoring. So you really need to start that first part of the day, and that's your sleep. That's the first part of your sleep. So, but diagnosing this, you can, you can see it. They're, they're craving, they're low in energy.

[00:13:41] Jodi Duval: They're, they do, they have raccoons climbing under their eyes. Um, but it's, it's quite obvious to see in, in, in most cases. 

[00:13:52] Boomer Anderson: So, uh, just going on that I know, um, Dr. Ted mentioned cytokines as potential panels and you guys all see, uh, panels from clients of various forms. And what are some of the common things that you see come up when somebody is circadian?

[00:14:10] Boomer Anderson: Dysregulated? Yeah, we've talked about, uh, blood sugar. We've talked about that leading to food cravings. We've talked about cortisol spikes. Uh, Scott sitting back there in your amazingly well lit podcast studio, uh, looking just absolutely. Like you came off of a beach in Anguilla this weekend. Can you, uh, tell us cloudy the whole time?

[00:14:33] Boomer Anderson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. I, I don't, ma I think he's just trying to make us feel better about him. I did take walks on the beach every morning. Yeah. It very romantic. Very romantic. Yeah. Yeah. I walks on the beach. Uh, I like romantic walks on the beach by myself. Uh, so I, let's pass it over to you. Uh, some of the things that come up in lab results when you're talking about maybe a metabol panel.

[00:14:51] Boomer Anderson: Yeah, yeah. What do you, 

[00:14:52] Dr. Scott Sherr: well, one of the, yeah. One of the first things I wanna mention here is that a decent amount of my patients. We'll say that they're sleeping well, they're sleeping fine, like there's no problems with [00:15:00] my sleep and. It's difficult to dig into that sometimes because people say that they go to bed at 10 o'clock and you know, at 10 o'clock at night, they wake up at, let's say six or something like that.

[00:15:09] Dr. Scott Sherr: They're getting their eight hours in bed, but they still don't feel good. Like they have brain fog, they have cravings, everything that we're describing here. So one of the things that I like to remind people that is just, just because you're getting eight hours in bed doesn't mean you're actually getting eight hours of good sleep as well, and that your sleep architecture is really, really important.

[00:15:27] Dr. Scott Sherr: And that's when I talk about using things like. An or ring or other kinds of trackers to give people a sense of how they're actually doing. And that could be really helpful because I find that my female clients are a lot more intuitive with this, but my male clients are not. And that's just the nature of the, the genders in general.

[00:15:46] Dr. Scott Sherr: Not, of course everybody, but you know, men tend to be less aware of various aspects of how they feel or what's going on, and it's just, and so. As a result of that, I like to use these kinds of things to help people understand, are you really getting the data? Those eight hours, are they really that good overall?

[00:16:03] Dr. Scott Sherr: Right? And so, but on the other end of it is, you know, what are you testing? You can test things like inflammatory markers, for example. You can test things like a CRP or a said rate. These are very coarse measurements, but if they're elevated, it has you kind of searching for what's causing inflammation in the system, and then you wanna think about the basics and sleep being one of those as well.

[00:16:25] Dr. Scott Sherr: And so in addition to that, you can also look at various neurotransmitter tests. If you look at these on an organic acid panel, you can do it, but you have to be careful about actually. Interpreting it specifically with just one thing in mind, but it can be helpful for you, right? If you see that their serotonin markers are really elevated, or that they're, that their, uh, their catecholamine levels are, are off the charts, or that they're, you know, their ratios, uh, you know, kyran and lytic acid, et cetera, these are also messed up.

[00:16:55] Dr. Scott Sherr: Like these are indications that you have brain inflammation, for example, or something going on. So these are additional things that I think about overall, um, as just some additional indicators. 

[00:17:06] Boomer Anderson: Uh, just gonna throw two out there. Oxidative stress, uh, seems to happen in this type of population. And then, uh, one thing that I love on the diagnostic side, for people that don't want to go out and spend the 300, $400 on a wearable, I.

[00:17:22] Boomer Anderson: Is the Pittsburgh Sleep Quality Index. Now, the problem with any of these surveys is that they're self-reported. So if you think you're a good sleeper and are afraid of admitting you're not a good sleeper because you have some sort of identity attached to that, uh, you're not gonna get the results that you probably need to heal.

[00:17:40] Boomer Anderson: Uh. I wanna, I think correction's kind of fun here, and we talk about rhythms and one thing that I, we also talked about light in the morning, and Jodi has all of her clients out in the morning looking at the, the sun because they're in Perth, Australia, and weather's beautiful. Right? Um, [00:18:00] but this kind of brings a discussion around Zeit Gaber and singing circadian rhythms, lights is.

[00:18:07] Boomer Anderson: The predominant one, uh, food being another. Does somebody want to take a little bit of a, a role at time restricted feeding here and why this might be useful? Well, I can, I can give it a shot, I guess, so. Cool. And, and talk about it from Yeah, I, I, I'd love to hear from your perspective as a clinician in the hospital, Allen.

[00:18:26] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Yeah. Well, so you have, well, this, yeah, there, there's a couple. I mean, I'll, I'll share the first person perspective as a physician working night shifts, and this topic is near and dear to. Any of us that work in the. That work night shifts, uh, any of our hearts. 'cause we, you know, we definitely feel the effect of circadian rhythm dysfunction in ways that will trail the shift by many days.

[00:18:50] Dr. Allen Bookatz: And some of these are obvious and some of these are less obvious. I think the thing we most notice. When you are crossing that two to 4:00 AM threshold in your, is your temperature dysregulation, you know, something's off because you feel freezing and the temperature in the ED or the hospital is the same and you're just bundling up like crazy and sometimes you even get the shivers and so you're kind of wondering what is, what's happening to my body?

[00:19:16] Dr. Allen Bookatz: You know, we haven't really. Um, made the connection, that light is this, you know, this metabolic signaler. Um, and we're exposed to these blue lights and what is this actually telling our, uh, what is this actually telling our brains and our bodies? And then, and then oddly enough, as you move forward, um, and you pass these certain, like windows, your cravings for.

[00:19:39] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Just terrible foods high, you know, usually high sugar, super processed. The, just the worst, the worst just goes up. So whatever discipline you think you have, uh, or, you know, going into the shift, if you are not prepared with like the right type of snacks to, you know, get ahead of it, your threshold for making good decisions, um, sort of just goes out the window.

[00:20:02] Dr. Allen Bookatz: And, uh, and we've all experienced this. And, and so what's interesting is, so from a a, a provider standpoint, I see it. And then as the more extreme example, when you see patients that are, you know, in the ICU or are admitted for several days and they're exposed to continuous noise, an unfamiliar environment, stimulation, artificial lights, um, you know, beepings from different monitors, uh, there's a condition called ICU delirium or.

[00:20:31] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Um, uh, what's the other, what's the other term, Scott, that we see? Uh, 

[00:20:37] Dr. Scott Sherr: I see psychosis. 

[00:20:38] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Psychosis, you know? Yeah, same thing. And so literally people will go crazy and, you know, they won't recognize where they're at. They don't know their name. And, um, it's a very scary thing for them and their family. And certainly you can imagine if this is what's happening to the brain, then what other.

[00:20:54] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Issues they have that they're actually requiring the hospital for, whether it's an infection, a heart attack, a stroke, all [00:21:00] those other systems are being taxed and stressed beyond. So, um, you know, we see that and that just prolongs, you know, obviously hospital length of stays and those are just terrible outcomes.

[00:21:10] Dr. Allen Bookatz: And so, you know, it's really something that's under, it's becoming a little bit more recognized, uh, with, with, uh, quiet hours. Um, and then something from a personal standpoint, as I noticed that. That my eating habits, the days following night shift were really bad, even when I would try to actually eat normal.

[00:21:31] Boomer Anderson: So you didn't go to ERO one the 

[00:21:32] Dr. Allen Bookatz: next day? I would, I wouldn't go to ERO one. 

[00:21:34] Boomer Anderson: No. No rate, no rate or smoothie for you? 

[00:21:37] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Well, what what one of the things I would do is I actually got one of the, so to, to Jodi's, uh, you know, Jodi's trying creatine, um, you know, just in terms of a tool to assess whether circadian rhythm dysfunction might be affecting your overall insulin resistance and your sense, you know, your overall glucose tolerance.

[00:21:57] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Uh, I, I'll have a continuous glucose monitor. See what's actually happening and the, you know, and I'll see what my normal fasting and typical responses to a meal, you know, a normal low carbohydrate, even a mono car, moderate carbohydrate meal, high, high protein, and what that effect looks like. And, and what I'll see is that the typical curve of you eat something, right?

[00:22:21] Dr. Allen Bookatz: You see your sugar go up, then your insulin sort of catches up, and then the, the sugar goes, you know, your glucose level goes back down and everything levels. What I'll see is that. For something that's a normal meal will rise and it'll be even higher than where it is normally. And then it'll be prolonged high for hours and hours.

[00:22:40] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Um, and sometimes it won't even go down for two or three days. So I think I. 

[00:22:45] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Are you sure? Just, just because you're not just eating and eating. I'm just speaking. I, I've bears, I seen deprived man, he's like, I don't keep chips. But somehow, somehow they managed to appear in the hotel. So, 

[00:22:59] Dr. Allen Bookatz: uh, I mean, it could be right.

[00:23:03] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So, I mean, there's de I mean there's certainly a psychological, uh, you know, we'll say lowered resistance, but I think, um, you know, meal timing. Is hormone timing. And when we eat, we set our peripheral clocks that we have the matic nucleus that Scott mentioned, and that's the master clock that regulates the liver, the pancreas, the gut.

[00:23:25] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So you know, when we have this misalignment with the central clock and what we're eating, we have this metabolic confusion. So there's no, not really a surprise here, why? You know, we'll see. Cer, you know, shift workers have increasing rates of insulin resistance, diabetes, obviously the sleep, the chronic sleep impairment, and you know.

[00:23:45] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Then all the recovery with GH and melatonin pulses are off. And so I, I don't even know really the, what, one or two night shifts, what kind of toll that takes over the long term, but, um, it's definitely something under recognized. So you can imagine applying this to a non night shift [00:24:00] worker. If you're looking at blue light, you're eating, you know, some snacks right before bed because you like going to sleep on an EPIs stomach, you're essentially doing the same thing.

[00:24:10] Boomer Anderson: So, so wonderfully said, and Dr. Vu Katz and I, I really appreciate you kind of taking us through the peripheral clocks and everything. Um, just giving, because you know, these episodes are meant to be a little bit shorter. I wanna talk a little bit about tactics. 'cause everybody loves the tactics, right? Uh, Jodi mentioned giving, uh, her.

[00:24:29] Boomer Anderson: Clients, so much creatine that they're now bodybuilders. Uh, but you know, what are the other things that you guys are using to, uh, re rethink circadian rhythms in your clients? What are your sort of favorite tricks, tools, that kind of stuff? 

[00:24:46] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Well, um, mine is prescription, um, because I usually would sync my jet lag with, uh, uh, cortisol regimen, very high dose cortisol regimen.

[00:24:58] Dr. Ted Achacoso: And it's, uh. Um, you know, the rule of thumb jet lag is, uh, usually, um, you know, one day per hour of, uh, changing time zone, right? So if you're 12 hours. Ahead, for example. Uh, then it will actually take you 12 days. You know, it's just a, this is just a heuristic, you know, it's not, it is just for you to remember that you're really not yet better.

[00:25:23] Dr. Ted Achacoso: If you're leaving after a week in a 12 hour time zone difference. You really haven't really fully, um, uh, uh. Acclimated to the time zone. Yeah. So, you know, the way I shortened this is by, uh, the use of hydrocortisone. There's a protocol they use for that. Um, however, it also helps, uh, what this is now, uh, OT trick for, for patients is that well, you know, don't sleep, uh, stay upright, uh, within, uh, uh, for about three hours after the last swallow at night, right?

[00:25:54] Dr. Ted Achacoso: I mean, food. So, you know. Then the second is choose. Choose, choose a time you know that you're going to sleep. And even if you're awake for a while, you know, it usually takes about a couple of weeks, uh, before your, your body actually gets the signal. So don't get impatient, because the more you get impatient, the more you get awake, right?

[00:26:15] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Uh, if you need, uh, sleep aids, uh, you know, like, uh, something that, that. That, that, that will stop your mind from, uh, having to, to stopping those reverberating circuits, right? That's when you can, you can actually take, you know, um, uh, supplements, uh, for that right, to calm you down. Um, magnesium, for example, is a good one.

[00:26:35] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Uh, to, to relax your decrease the, your, uh, blood pressure, right? For those who are, um. Uh, not overly dramatic and don't have any melatonin sensitivity can take melatonin to prepare body to rest. Um, melatonin does not put you to sleep, right. It only signals your body to rest, right? Uh, and, and so also, you know, uh, you know, you stop your, uh, your.

[00:26:58] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Caffeine [00:27:00] and other, uh, things that will increase your norepinephrine, right? Um, by increasing your, uh, adenosine in your system so that you have a sleep drive that you're actually sleepy enough to sleep, right? Um, and then time, your exercise, you know, and in a, like a regular graph, you'll see that the best time to actually is probably around three or four in the afternoon.

[00:27:21] Dr. Ted Achacoso: And that, that really depends on the schedule. But then many of us have artificial schedules anyway. Uh, and then when you. Don't be alarmed that if you wake up at night, then it's actually natural to wake up or wake up a little. You know, as you get older, it's no longer possible for you to sleep as, as hard as you could when you were, uh, like when you were young, right?

[00:27:43] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Uh, remember that your growth hormone rises, even at my age, it just rises, you know, um, uh, within the first hour of sleep. And that's why, you know, if you're under, uh. Identical, uh, hormone bAllencing. They usually give some growth hormone or some peptides to ratio growth hormone. It's just, just, just to ride on the natural pop of the growth hormone when you're sleeping and growth hormone does wonder for.

[00:28:10] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Um, and then the next day when you wake up. Not feeling refreshed, then you have to examine everything else because there's, there's some things that are around you. Like, for example, you're not sleeping in total darkness, for example. Uh, or you know, the temperature is too high, it's too hot, and your phone is actually right beside you instead of the deposited in a basket outside of your room.

[00:28:33] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Right. Dr. Cher, uh, you know, so this is called, you know, uh, there's a part called, you know, the, the, uh, context or the, the sleep hygiene. Sleep hygiene consists of like the way you brush your teeth, the way this is, the way you remove all the things that would distract you from sleep, right? And, uh, I go so far as, you know, if you're partners snores, then you get a sleep divorce, right?

[00:28:55] Dr. Ted Achacoso: You get your partner sleep in another room because in each time that their partner snores, actually your cortisol level would rise even if you didn't, uh, didn't know it. Especially for night sleepers. So, you know, there are, there are a lot of, uh, ways to do this, but in the end, it's really the number one regenerative, um, uh, function in our body.

[00:29:16] Dr. Ted Achacoso: We still don't know why we sleep. Right. We still don't know why we sleep. Uh, but it, it does all of these, uh, wonderful things. It clears out the glymphatic is in their brain, for example. You know, they, you know that the more sleep deprive you are, the less cognitively, um, uh, alert you are the next day. Or sharp, you are the next day.

[00:29:36] Dr. Ted Achacoso: So, you know, essentially if you consider like a borg, like or a cyborg and you have to recharge yourself, it's that, that part, when you rejoin the collective, uh, that's a pretty good, good thing, right? It's when, when your body actually powers down and actually regenerate itself. So you could go and, uh, and uh, function, uh, again the next day, right?

[00:29:58] Dr. Ted Achacoso: And so you don't scream out the [00:30:00] world. You. So the, the key here is to control the world, uh, around you and the, the sleep. And actually you also control yourself and what you do. You know, you don't eat chips at like, uh, five minutes before, before going to bed. 

[00:30:15] Boomer Anderson: All right. So just in closing, 'cause I know we have to wrap up quickly here, uh, because Dr.

[00:30:20] Boomer Anderson: Ted covered like end-to-end sleep, everything, uh, but favorite sleep. Uh, I guess additive or hack, uh, as the cool kids would say, uh, each one of us kind of go rapid fire. Uh, Dr. Ted's already given a laundry list or the Bible of sleep, but, um, who wants to go first? Okay, fine. I'll go first. Thank you for, uh, volunteering me.

[00:30:43] Boomer Anderson: Uh, so, uh, my favorite thing is my mattress, which, uh, allows me to sleep at a cool temperature because I run very, very hot most of the time and my wife runs very, very cold all the time. And so we have like a dual temperature mattress. Uh, all right. Uh, over to somebody else. 

[00:31:02] Dr. Allen Bookatz: I'll go. So what, I mean, other than everything that was mentioned, I'm just sort of reaching here, but.

[00:31:08] Dr. Allen Bookatz: Those of us that maybe don't follow Ted's exact, you know, three hours before bedtime hygiene, which I really try to do, but sometimes it's really tough. So, you know those of us that wind down what you eat all the time, because I'm just snacking, right? Yeah. Um, no, I 

[00:31:25] Boomer Anderson: a Allen hasn't told you yet, but he has the McDonald's gold card.

[00:31:28] Boomer Anderson: Yeah, just McDonald's 

[00:31:30] Dr. Allen Bookatz: munching 

[00:31:30] Boomer Anderson: on bid 

[00:31:31] Dr. Allen Bookatz: max and fries. Is, uh, it's like Be Patties a lot. A lot of people like to wind down at night by watching Netflix, right? The Netflix and Chill. And what I've learned is that there's certain shows and I'll, I'll say there's one show I was watching called The Bear, which I learned two things from it.

[00:31:47] Dr. Allen Bookatz: One is Chicago is the best city in the world. Well, yeah, three things then Chicago, number two, I, I think, uh, there's few things worse than being a, a night shift er doctor and perhaps owning a restaurant. Being a chef is one of them. And that show or anything that is suspenseful, I. Will like destroy any hope of you getting to sleep.

[00:32:07] Dr. Allen Bookatz: So anything, it doesn't have to be scary, it can just be totally like exciting. Say season 

[00:32:12] Boomer Anderson: four comes out in June, which means Allen, Allen, we're gonna do another one of these episodes and you're gonna look like a raccoon, right? Yeah, go. Yeah. Perfect. So 

[00:32:21] Dr. Allen Bookatz: just be bored. Whatever you can do. Bore yourself as you get.

[00:32:24] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah, I never finished, uh, breaking Bad because I was trying to watch it before bed, and that was the worst series to watch before bed because there was always a cliffhanger, always something gnarly at the end. And I was just like, I gotta watch this next one. 

[00:32:38] Jodi Duval: And anything horror as well. Oh yeah. 

[00:32:41] Dr. Scott Sherr: Judy, you wanna go next?

[00:32:43] Jodi Duval: Ooh. All right. Um, I think yes, yes and yes to everything everyone said, and I think that's a big part. Lighting for me. I like reading a book with red light before bed, so it's just giving myself ample enough time and clients ample enough time to wind down. Food's a big one. [00:33:00] You know, anything that's, um, not water a couple of hours before my heart rate's up and I monitor all of that on the aura.

[00:33:06] Jodi Duval: So it's really interesting to see. See how all of that impacts it. Mm-hmm. But one interesting thing I noticed last night, and I made a, a comment to my husband this morning and I was looking at my AA ring this morning. I was like, oh, why is my HRV really high right before bed? And, no, not what you think it is, but we were having a nice hug and like, I was like, 'cause we're not, we don't actually 

[00:33:23] Boomer Anderson: only the oxytocin, this is the oxytocin sales pitch, right?

[00:33:27] Boomer Anderson: Yeah. It's like, gimme a hug, I'm gonna get some oxytocin and some HRV. 

[00:33:32] Jodi Duval: My heart rate's down my HI v's up, and so connection and hugging, I'll add to that list. 

[00:33:39] Boomer Anderson: That's beautiful. So, Jo, Jodi, what's the name of your teddy bear? 

[00:33:44] Jodi Duval: It's a, it's a live teddy bear called Matt. 

[00:33:46] Boomer Anderson: Oh, okay. Very nice. Nice. Awesome. Alright.

[00:33:50] Boomer Anderson: Uh, the hostess. Yeah. 

[00:33:55] Dr. Scott Sherr: I'll, I'll just add a quick one. I, and, and Ted was already alluding to this earlier, is just having like the same sleep routine every single night. And yeah, I think you guys have seen me do this over the years in hotel rooms, but just something very short, just a little stretching, that's all.

[00:34:08] Dr. Scott Sherr: Yeah, and it, whatever it is for me, it's some stretching and I got into this routine when I was having some back issues a number of years ago, and. It just, it signals to the rest of this avatar me suit that it's time to go to bed. And so that's, it doesn't, it can be long, it can be 15 minutes sometimes, but oftentimes it just needs to be two, three minutes of stretching and then my body knows it's Pavlovian.

[00:34:31] Dr. Scott Sherr: The response is to go to bed. So 

[00:34:33] Dr. Allen Bookatz: could you demonstrate these stretches, Scott? Yeah, I think, I think our listeners would really appreciate it because 

[00:34:40] Dr. Scott Sherr: boomers really got some, here he is. 

[00:34:44] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Well, uh, one of the things that, um, I'd like to share really is to use this, the, uh, time between the, the time that you're awake, at the time that you're actually falling asleep.

[00:34:57] Dr. Ted Achacoso: That's, uh. You know, the paraliminal period or uh, subliminal period, right. That's when you're still awake enough, you know, to basically say something to your mind and you're already falling asleep to not care what it'll answer back. Right. So that it's, it's one of my, uh, best ways to do problem solving.

[00:35:19] Dr. Ted Achacoso: Right. I just. Put it out there, uh, as just, just as I'm drifting off to sleep, you know, I need a solution to the following issue without any, you know, uh, without any, um, uh, expectation, uh, of a response. And then just, you know, it's just like leaving, leaving, uh. You know, uh, deep research, uh, on and do, do its own thing.

[00:35:41] Dr. Ted Achacoso: And then when you wake up in the morning, you'll find a report, you know, and, and over time, you know, your mind gets disciplined that you're going to be using it in that way, and therefore it becomes a lot more responsive right, to the thing that you're solving. And like anything else, it needs context, right?

[00:35:59] Dr. Ted Achacoso: So. [00:36:00] You know, uh, in terms of, in terms of what you're, you're trying to, so you say, well, you know, I really, uh, need a solution to my really horrible, uh, horrible, uh, sleep hygiene. Right? So, so it'll, you know, then, and then you'll dream of like, you know, uh, you know, a good mattress, uh, that's good for sleeping.

[00:36:21] Dr. Ted Achacoso: You know, I have a, a, a, a cooling system, right? Uh, uh, uh, I, I have a cooling mattress. And then you could put in like a magnetic pulser, like an earl elf pulse or, or, or something like that. You know, a lot of the, the technology now that you can actually use and, uh, of course you can control your overhead lights with some, uh, you know, uh, timer that actually removes, for example, all the shades of blue.

[00:36:47] Dr. Ted Achacoso: At night and then pumps in all the, the shades of to the by, by the daytime and so on and so forth. You know, you can, or, or maybe maybe next day you just be attracted or catalog that has those. So I don't know what's, uh, what's going on there, but it's, you know, it's one of the things that's, that, uh, you, you, you may try, uh, to see whether or not you know it's time to divorce your partner or not.

[00:37:08] Dr. Ted Achacoso: I'm kidding. Anyway, 

[00:37:11] Boomer Anderson: sleep, divorce, sleep. Yeah, we, we forgot to give the shout out to the resident influencer here for having his blue light blockers on. You're very on point tonight. Uh, so thank you. 

[00:37:21] Dr. Scott Sherr: Just trying to, trying to be aligned with our Yeah. Podcast in the evening. I 

[00:37:27] Boomer Anderson: appreciate that. I appreciate 

[00:37:28] Dr. Scott Sherr: that.

[00:37:28] Dr. Scott Sherr: Mm-hmm. 

[00:37:28] Dr. Allen Bookatz: What about the full, what about like when the moon is full? What do you think about that? It seems like. 

[00:37:33] Boomer Anderson: I, I, I go resident Teen Wolf, uh, in Michael J. Fox style in 1985. So, uh, such a great movie. I, you know, what happens great is I actually negate my circadian rhythms all together and actually go car surfing.

[00:37:46] Boomer Anderson: So I hop on the back of, or top of a car and drive as fast as possible. So, um, 

[00:37:51] Dr. Scott Sherr: love it. All bud, you wanna take us away? 

[00:37:54] Boomer Anderson: All right. Yeah, I think we have to take it home to Margaritaville guys. Uh, so, uh, thank you guys for attending once again to close this out full circle. This podcast is brought to you by the Biont Hacker shirt.

[00:38:05] Boomer Anderson: Um, we aren't actually selling these yet, but, uh, as Lynn Margolis. Said, uh, in the early nineties, we were all just hobi. And one of the perspective shifts that we like to do here at home Hope is to shift you from organo to holo tology. And so with that, we'll wrap things up for the day. Thank you all for living smarter, not harder.

[00:38:29] Boomer Anderson: Bye-bye. Bye 

[00:38:30] Dr. Allen Bookatz: bye. Gonna go have a nightcap now.

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